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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Naa.. we need to fill out time untill Greg comes with the documentation of his mods..
And the way i see it everyone not interested is free not to read our arguments.. 
So i think we need to keep this thread alive to remind Greg we all like to see how his mods performs,
and ecrab promised some reference screenshots for us to compare with.. Very interesting.. First time ever seen from his JVC.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: |
No problem for me I know the fact,why do you have a problem with the vw1000? |
It's comments like this that bothers me. And that's because every time I see someone speak of a particular technology as THE best, they seem to always come from a place of not knowing.
In order to make that kind of claim with a certainty, they should at least be able to see what displays they have experienced, and in the case of CRT you really make yourself look like fool by making such claims, because you not have seen the best of them, you have not seen the better of them. And that's like strongest man on the island of Hawaii, claiming to be the strongest man in the world.
It happens a lot around here also ( "I used to own an 8" CRT, but have seen 'a' 9" CRT in action"), and are always saying how much better digital has become over CRT..
And because a lot of my experience has been in commercial A/V, I don't seem to know a lot about digital's and don't own one. And that does not allow me to do what they do, I can't use a single experience to be an expert.
But, I do know a lot about digital's. I've been involved with the technology since the 80's. And because I have not been involved with the latest in consumer digital technology, I'm not qualified to have a voice on the consumer stuff, though I did recommend a JVC RS56 to a customer for an insurance claim and installed it. So I guess that's not enough still to have an opinion, when I have to here all the time the absolute "fact" of digital being better.
Ok, lets look at this.. I have been servicing and maintaining some of all of the BEST commercial projectors out there for more than 30 years, with the last 12 being as a consultant. I have yet to hear any of the top manufacturers reps, answer my and others question of their digital projector producing a "BETTER" image than CRT. Not one has said it yet, nor can the rightfully make that claim. and in every training session or when i speak to them about it, they all say the same thing:
because CRT paints (scans an horizontal line, opposed to manipulating pixels on a complete full one scan, it can never produce a more accurate image over CRT "but it's getting closer").
The Barco 909 was designed to please those engineers and perfectionist that continued to be displeased with digitals technology, so Barco went to the drawing board to bring a solution for the most critical visual situation out there. Well, it was a good idea, but it did not live up to expectations (and the 909 was wheat got me on board as a consultant).
You should see what the real experts have to say about digital technology, when they are being used in biological research and other where not only true black is very important, there's another element when the display MUST maintain perfect image linearity 9not going to happen with a digital). Therefore, the display device is not pleasing them, because it still will not produce the best natural image.
We had one customer that had an Immersive (jump out at you 3D) Display setup that was a flight deck of an aircraft carrier. It was using marquee 8500 AC projectors. And because the flight deck software would also operate at night and in complete darkness, that created a problem for a digital replacement. And is also the reason VDC purchased the Marquee.
I've seen some very expensive setups, and as much as SC keeps reminding me that in a lot of way consumer digitals are more advanced. that comment I could understand, but the reality is, anything out there consumer is a toy to what the have been advancing in commercial display technology.
For instance, when I was at Barco Tech training three years ago. Barco introduced a while new DLP assembly that was also being used during the training. And because all the things really needed to make that assembly perform the way it did, it cannot be put into a small package. In fact, the best digital display I've seen today is the newer TI DLP system. This same system is being used in the DPI Titan HD. Craig Rounds has seen it. Ask him if he's seen anything like it or better....
And could consumer possibly be better - no! There's a lot to understand before making such claim. With one thing being the processing they are suing to power these new machines. While Lumagen has been improved to be faster for HT. these newer systems are basically being fed by mini super computers, that are called either PC Nodes that could have as high as 64gigs of ram, and using Nvidia Quadra video cards that have up to 12 gigs each on them, and cost $5000.00 each.
The industry has been moving towards D- Theater and also being able to please the most critical out there. IOt's no longer a graphics industry. It;s now all about video and the absolute best image possible.
The DLP projector I saw at Barco was, believe it or not a single chip DLP projector. I also saw their 3 chip DLP projectors, but that single chip I could watch myself. But in order to understand what I'm saying, you would have to know first hand about what they (TI) were doing different. I've seen plenty of everything else, and that includes the Chris ies and DPI. which makes up the three top digital technologies for commercial use.
And still, we have not revealed how i was able to tell from that test pattern what was going on wit the Sony, that Angreas later confirmed what I had said..
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Please let this thread DIE !!!!!
nashou |
yes, and I agree 100%
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is a shot from the Vidikron, i promise you that looking that image on both you would swear that the CRT had higher resolution.
With the nose 30cm from the screen.
And thats with a standard bandwidth as shown in the pic. |
When you showed the picture from your marquee and your jvc I wonder if I can talk about resolution without being rude.
Can't you see that. You only see one thing what about the rest?
I suppose that does not matter. But now need to do other stuff than this.
Have a nice Saturday. Waste of time. |
Yeah well no body realy belive you will stay away, so here we go again..
Im new to CRT..
Less than 2 years ago i never seen one, just digital projectors.
I had my JVC long before buying a CRT, and never ever seen other than a BARCO 808 before. ( not impressed)
It was pure luck crosing the Vidikron, and getting the option to play with a CRT..
2 days after i got it i had the feeling that there was no way back for me.. I lost the interest in the JVC.
Some reasons.. stability,/ extreme color drift, limited lamp life, pixel structure, all areas where the CRT did better, later came other parameters.
So its not like i never got out of CRT, or was adicted to old stuff projection, or soft image.
Now a guy like you that never owned a high end CRT, i would not expect you to understand.
Try define your definition of resolution, i think we have a different way of undrstanding that..? |
No here you go again. You are in your own word and impossible to talk sense to hehe. Do you find it strange that no one else have shown their 909 and other marquees 9"
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Please let this thread DIE !!!!!
nashou |
yes, and I agree 100% |
+1
I agree +2
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.? |
What we use in 2013 blue ray 1080P 
Here is some sense you live in your own word so you won't understand. But that's ok.
Now it's movie time.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.? |
What we use in 2013 blue ray 1080P
Here is some sense you live in your own word so you won't understand. But that's ok.
Now it's movie time. |
I see that you clearly have no clue what resolution is. 1920x1080P far from completes the resolution.. If you think realy long and realy hard can you find another parameter to add.?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
No problem for me I know the fact,why do you have a problem with the vw1000? |
It's comments like this that bothers me. And that's because every time I see someone speak of a particular technology as THE best, they seem to always come from a place of not knowing.
""We live in igloos and white bears run in the street.""
In order to make that kind of claim with a certainty, they should at least be able to see what displays they have experienced, and in the case of CRT you really make yourself look like fool by making such claims, because you not have seen the best of them, you have not seen the better of them. And that's like strongest man on the island of Hawaii, claiming to be the strongest man in the world.
"""Have you seen it, and have you seen the vw1000?"""
It happens a lot around here also ( "I used to own an 8" CRT, but have seen 'a' 9" CRT in action"), and are always saying how much better digital has become over CRT..
"""Truth and fact if you know picture."""
And because a lot of my experience has been in commercial A/V, I don't seem to know a lot about digital's and don't own one. And that does not allow me to do what they do, I can't use a single experience to be an expert.
"""Again just you do not what you talking about I have owned the vw1000 for almost 2 years."""
But, I do know a lot about digital's. I've been involved with the technology since the 80's. And because I have not been involved with the latest in consumer digital technology, I'm not qualified to have a voice on the consumer stuff, though I did recommend a JVC RS56 to a customer for an insurance claim and installed it. So I guess that's not enough still to have an opinion, when I have to here all the time the absolute "fact" of digital being better.
""" there you are right"""
Ok, lets look at this.. I have been servicing and maintaining some of all of the BEST commercial projectors out there for more than 30 years, with the last 12 being as a consultant. I have yet to hear any of the top manufacturers reps, answer my and others question of their digital projector producing a "BETTER" image than CRT. Not one has said it yet, nor can the rightfully make that claim. and in every training session or when i speak to them about it, they all say the same thing:
because CRT paints (scans an horizontal line, opposed to manipulating pixels on a complete full one scan, it can never produce a more accurate image over CRT "but it's getting closer").
""""What year did you hear this the last 3 years allot did happen. Today CRT not close, but still good.""""
The Barco 909 was designed to please those engineers and perfectionist that continued to be displeased with digitals technology, so Barco went to the drawing board to bring a solution for the most critical visual situation out there. Well, it was a good idea, but it did not live up to expectations (and the 909 was wheat got me on board as a consultant).
"""It was designed for SD material back then, fantastic that you in fact can see the format today."""
You should see what the real experts have to say about digital technology, when they are being used in biological research and other where not only true black is very important, there's another element when the display MUST maintain perfect image linearity 9not going to happen with a digital). Therefore, the display device is not pleasing them, because it still will not produce the best natural image.
"""Makes me wonder who does they think they fool?"""
We had one customer that had an Immersive (jump out at you 3D) Display setup that was a flight deck of an aircraft carrier. It was using marquee 8500 AC projectors. And because the flight deck software would also operate at night and in complete darkness, that created a problem for a digital replacement. And is also the reason VDC purchased the Marquee.
""""For simulators CRT still the best in my eyes, this because of the best input lag. """"
I've seen some very expensive setups, and as much as SC keeps reminding me that in a lot of way consumer digitals are more advanced. that comment I could understand, but the reality is, anything out there consumer is a toy to what the have been advancing in commercial display technology.
For instance, when I was at Barco Tech training three years ago. Barco introduced a while new DLP assembly that was also being used during the training. And because all the things really needed to make that assembly perform the way it did, it cannot be put into a small package. In fact, the best digital display I've seen today is the newer TI DLP system. This same system is being used in the DPI Titan HD. Craig Rounds has seen it. Ask him if he's seen anything like it or better....
"""DLP not compatible only in 3d.""""
And could consumer possibly be better - no! There's a lot to understand before making such claim. With one thing being the processing they are suing to power these new machines. While Lumagen has been improved to be faster for HT. these newer systems are basically being fed by mini super computers, that are called either PC Nodes that could have as high as 64gigs of ram, and using Nvidia Quadra video cards that have up to 12 gigs each on them, and cost $5000.00 each.
The industry has been moving towards D- Theater and also being able to please the most critical out there. IOt's no longer a graphics industry. It;s now all about video and the absolute best image possible.
"""""Yes it's now the best image possible, not graphic. """"
The DLP projector I saw at Barco was, believe it or not a single chip DLP projector. I also saw their 3 chip DLP projectors, but that single chip I could watch myself. But in order to understand what I'm saying, you would have to know first hand about what they (TI) were doing different. I've seen plenty of everything else, and that includes the Chris ies and DPI. which makes up the three top digital technologies for commercial use.
,,,,,,Again DLP can't compare even 3ship again for 3 d yes better because of tripped flash.""""
And still, we have not revealed how i was able to tell from that test pattern what was going on wit the Sony, that Angreas later confirmed what I had said.. |
The fact is that up scaling with the vw1000 to 4k is very very good, and there is almost not visible artifacts in test patterns.
And you do not see this in a movie.
And like I said you have not seen the vw1000, I have owned it a long time. And tested a bounce of different extremely god projectors. And do not try to say that I have not seen extremely good crts. And again do not believe all that you here. If i was 1% not shore I won't bother wasting time writing to try to get you understand.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.? |
What we use in 2013 blue ray 1080P
Here is some sense you live in your own word so you won't understand. But that's ok.
Now it's movie time. |
I see that you clearly have no clue what resolution is. 1920x1080P far from completes the resolution.. If you think realy long and realy hard can you find another parameter to add.? |
I watch blue ray that's the best today. What you refutes to here is does not ad up with a CRT sorry.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.? |
What we use in 2013 blue ray 1080P
Here is some sense you live in your own word so you won't understand. But that's ok.
Now it's movie time. |
I see that you clearly have no clue what resolution is. 1920x1080P far from completes the resolution.. If you think realy long and realy hard can you find another parameter to add.? |
I watch blue ray that's the best today. What you refutes to here is does not ad up with a CRT sorry. |
Please fill out the full resolution.. 1920x1080------->
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Look around this forum.. There is lots of Marquee shots.. LOOOTS. The 909 is a different story.
Tell me some sense..!!
I still need to understand your definition of resolution.. how many dimensions do it have.? |
What we use in 2013 blue ray 1080P
Here is some sense you live in your own word so you won't understand. But that's ok.
Now it's movie time. |
I see that you clearly have no clue what resolution is. 1920x1080P far from completes the resolution.. If you think realy long and realy hard can you find another parameter to add.? |
I watch blue ray that's the best today. What you refutes to here is does not ad up with a CRT sorry. |
Please fill out the full resolution.. 1920x1080-------> |
I forgot 1920x1080p I'd hard for most crts. Shall we go 720 p.
You have internet don't you? If you gonna tell me a fairy tail about resolution send me a pm.
If you do not know you find information at the net.
And one thing for shore my projector handles that 100% perfect. It's strange every time you shot out crap when you understand that there is no more to talk about.
You watch your CRT fantasy sd resolution that was invented 60 years ago maybe with 20 years of tweeting and modding you're closer to what's today. But times does not stand still like many of you CRT guys think. Wake up. Hehe
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ok ill try ask so you might understand the question.. It has nothing to do with the display.
Whats the resolution on a BLU RAY movie.?
1920 X 1080-->( for you to finish)
If you dont know, just say so, or fill in the missing part.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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This thread cant die yet, its got more life here than the rest of the forum!!
Let the babies have their bottles, its quite good entertainment for me here
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | This thread cant die yet, its got more life here than the rest of the forum!!
Let the babies have their bottles, its quite good entertainment for me here |
Hehe you are right
Can't we all rent a big cinema and everybody take they're monsters from the 90s and up to our lifetime the 20s and we take a shoutout hehe
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | Ok ill try ask so you might understand the question.. It has nothing to do with the display.
Whats the resolution on a BLU RAY movie.?
1920 X 1080-->( for you to finish)
If you dont know, just say so, or fill in the missing part. |
Resolution in the digital world is numbers of pixels.
All movie made today is scanned digital even if it's filmed analog or digital.
Then we talk about home use in 2013.
Everything since the DVD has also been digital. End of story.
What's your point. The sxrd projectors try to be true to the source. The gap between pixels are so small that the feeling is soft, and extremely film like. That's why the sony is unique.
You live 15 years behind. When do you stop....
And a question to you how can a CRT be true to the source is 1920x1080 pixels?
And the CRT have scan lines hehe
Again total bull
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Ok ill try ask so you might understand the question.. It has nothing to do with the display.
Whats the resolution on a BLU RAY movie.?
1920 X 1080-->( for you to finish)
If you dont know, just say so, or fill in the missing part. |
Resolution in the digital world is numbers of pixels.
|
Happy you finaly admitted the limitations of your understanding resolution..
Its quite important we are on the same page when comes to the way we create a image, all the way down to each pixel.
If you dont fully understand how we build up the image, you will also not know how to evaluate its quality, and you showed that when evaluating the SMPTE pattern, who is a very good tool to see how the display resolves each pixel.
Now ill give you a extra dimension to the resolution you have to remember, and you can think a bit and see if there is more to add..
1920 X 1080 X 256--> ( can you think of more ? )
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Ok ill try ask so you might understand the question.. It has nothing to do with the display.
Whats the resolution on a BLU RAY movie.?
1920 X 1080-->( for you to finish)
If you dont know, just say so, or fill in the missing part. |
Resolution in the digital world is numbers of pixels.
|
Happy you finaly admitted the limitations of your understanding resolution..
Its quite important we are on the same page when comes to the way we create a image, all the way down to each pixel.
If you dont fully understand how we build up the image, you will also not know how to evaluate its quality, and you showed that when evaluating the SMPTE pattern, who is a very good tool to see how the display resolves each pixel.
Now ill give you a extra dimension to the resolution you have to remember, and you can think a bit and see if there is more to add..
1920 X 1080 X 256--> ( can you think of more ? ) |
And I am happy that you write so everybody sees this.
You are so way of mister.
What all you CRT guys refers to is that image on a digital gets to sharp. Of cores it's sharper than a CRT.
Not more to add no. You talk bull CRT talk 20 years ago.
Scan lines is not pixels. A digital is more true to the source. And with a vw1000 pixels are not visible and therefore soft. hehe
You think that a sxrd is the same as your jvc or a DLP. Like every CRT guy use as an example DLP or LCD pixels are visible and can ad extra sharpness to image, if you want yes. But still true to the source. But you will never leave your planet not knowing.
Then you can tell me since you think you're so know everything and are lost in space. What is special with sxrd from sony?
The fact is what I wrote.
If you do not add sharpness in any way on a sxrd it's as true to the source as no CRT ever will be.
Think about that in silence in your little fantasy world lol.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Diddern.. Try kep this simple..
I told you many times this is not about the projectors.. We are talking about understanding the native resolution on the BLU RAY disc..
The way you argues shows that you have no clue where im trying to go with this.
So on your blue ray disc you have 1920x 1080 x 256--> Anything else you like to add.?
We can pick up talking about different display types, when we both agree how the sourse is defined.
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