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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Is it not possible to add a tinted glass, in front of the tube inside the LC chamber.?
I would emagine one mounted on 4 dots, 1-2mm from the tube and glycol all around it.
Anyone ever done that.? |
It should work, but at the price of the ANSI contrast, plain surfaces in the light path causing reflections. |
I think it would be highly impractical and of little to no value. As gjaky pointed out, reflections would be a problem - and not just in terms of ANSI contrast. The parallel surfaces would cause AC-style halos; they'd be smaller, but more intense. You would be nullifying almost the entire benefit of LC at that point.
Plus, with only a 1-2mm gap between the glass and the tube face, you'd create an insulating layer, which would reduce the heat excavation capacity of the glycol, so I would imagine the phosphor would run hotter. I'm just guessing on that, though.
SC
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Is it not possible to add a tinted glass, in front of the tube inside the LC chamber.?
I would emagine one mounted on 4 dots, 1-2mm from the tube and glycol all around it.
Anyone ever done that.? |
It should work, but at the price of the ANSI contrast, plain surfaces in the light path causing reflections. |
I think it would be highly impractical and of little to no value. As gjaky pointed out, reflections would be a problem - and not just in terms of ANSI contrast. The parallel surfaces would cause AC-style halos; they'd be smaller, but more intense. You would be nullifying almost the entire benefit of LC at that point.
Plus, with only a 1-2mm gap between the glass and the tube face, you'd create an insulating layer, which would reduce the heat excavation capacity of the glycol, so I would imagine the phosphor would run hotter. I'm just guessing on that, though.
SC |
So the halo effect on the AC projectors is not from the AC cupling, but in the glycol filled chamber with the flat glass plate.?
I dont think heat is anything to worry about in the Marquee, i never felt anything warm or hot on those chambers, they always feels Cold, and glass dont work as a good heat isolator.
Anyway it would be fun to hear the result, if anyone ever dumped one of those tinted glases from a 7-8" machine into a 9" LC chamber.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | So the halo effect on the AC projectors is not from the AC cupling, but in the glycol filled chamber with the flat glass plate.? |
It's the flat glass to flat glass interface, full-stop. It creates reflections. The curved lens in an LC assembly still has reflections, but because the lens elements are convex relative to the objective, the reflections grow much larger and less intense.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | I dont think heat is anything to worry about in the Marquee, i never felt anything warm or hot on those chambers, they always feels Cold, and glass dont work as a good heat isolator. |
Really? Seems like the tubes on my machines were always quite warm. Since the tube and LC hardware was quite warm to the touch, I assumed the local heat on the phosphor and face of the tube was much higher. I wonder why the glycol is necessary at all if not to dissipate heat.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | Anyway it would be fun to hear the result, if anyone ever dumped one of those tinted glases from a 7-8" machine into a 9" LC chamber. |
What tinted glasses? In the AC machines that I'm aware of, it's either tinted coolant, or a tinted lens in the lens assembly. I think if you were going to put something in the coolant chamber of a 9" LC machine, you'd have to manufacture it from scratch. Some research and testing would be necessary, since as Craig pointed out, the emission bandwidth and gross output may not even be enough to be usable ofter the additional filtration.
Still, I'd be curious to know if it were feasible, also.
SC
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | I think that 4K movies will be a software solution in the early beginnings. Then hardware will follow. Or something like that.. |
I agree. I think they'll give the early-adopters some content, and then interest to gauge mass-market viability. I think that's what Sony is dong with its 4k displays and 4k player. It's a test market.
SC
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | I think that 4K movies will be a software solution in the early beginnings. Then hardware will follow. Or something like that.. |
I agree. I think they'll give the early-adopters some content, and then interest to gauge mass-market viability. I think that's what Sony is dong with its 4k displays and 4k player. It's a test market.
SC |
I didn't know they also had a 4K player..
Last edited by thewolfman on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
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Larry K
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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and don't forget about the high end version of player/content provider, which has all options for output and higher framerates. They should be ready for beta launch within the next month.
http://www.red.com/store/products/redray-player
Content provider for RedRay
odemax.com
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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4K, does it matter?
With HD broadcasts of the television stations over here it's just more crap in more pixels. The difference between a good and a bad recording is more pronounced. This will probably be even more with 4K, or won't it?
A more expanded colour space, ok, but what percentage of current displays can even cover the current range?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's good higher resolutions (or higher quality) is being researched, with better colour rendering, but consumers should be shot.
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The kissing and the colour come crashing down
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MyCrtFellOnMe
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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I Know this is an old thread, but here's my two cents.
A few months ago I tried 3840x2160 on my FW900 @50Hz through my Nvidia control panel. Obviously it didn't completely resolve the image, but the difference was definitely there. I usually run them at 1920x1200@96Hz which I find the be ideal for most material, but in terms of the POP of the image (not a bad crackle pop! haha) the 3840x2160 really did look better. The hard part is trying to ignore the 50Hz flicker on a bright scene!
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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May i ask what source/connection you have used to output 3840 x 2160 ?
thanks
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I do not know why this issue keeps coming up. By the time 4k is the norm at home, there will be f*cking 24 k in the theaters. Ad I am sure by then we will have mostly been switched to a digital unit. sh*t man! I say we just enjoy what we got and ease up on the modding. I think some of us waste more time modding then enjoying. A hobby?.....sure but do not go crazy....however I am interested in Nash's banding mod.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | sh*t man! I say we just enjoy what we got and ease up on the modding. I think some of us waste more time modding then enjoying. A hobby?.....sure but do not go crazy....however I am interested in Nash's banding mod. |
I tend to be in your camp… But, we're not necessarily typical here. What I've learned over the years in this forum is that CRT projectors aren't the means to an end for some (watching movies). For a lot of guys, the CRT projector IS the end. They love tinkering, they love farting around with test patterns, and scalers, focus, lenses, different resolutions, magnetics, and the list goes on…
Personally, I get all sorts of frustrated if I spend more than hour or two tweaking audio or video at this point… Pretty soon, I'm just throwing discs in and watching clips, enjoying… Then, I put the kids in bed, my wife comes down, and we watch a movie.
This hobby is really no different than any other, though… We all know the guys that collect cars, but don't drive them. Instead, they tinker with them. Replace stuff, recondition stuff, buy and sell stuff. Same with cameras… Have lots of expensive gear, test cameras and lenses, and they can tell you all about every spec and quirk on the camera, but they've never taken it out and just took pictures with it.
It would drive me insane spending all my time dinking with the gear... I built my theater so I could watch movies!
But, as they say, whatever blows yer skirt up…
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | I do not know why this issue keeps coming up. By the time 4k is the norm at home, there will be f*cking 24 k in the theaters. Ad I am sure by then we will have mostly been switched to a digital unit. sh*t man! I say we just enjoy what we got and ease up on the modding. I think some of us waste more time modding then enjoying. A hobby?.....sure but do not go crazy....however I am interested in Nash's banding mod. |
Waiting for the board to get made the PCB board making house TSE told me about.
I will have to see if I aligned the header location correctly . If it fits I can use this
version if not I'll have to make the adjustment and have another trial run.
But I think it should work ok.
Sorry for highjacking this thread .
Nashou
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | digitalayon wrote: | | sh*t man! I say we just enjoy what we got and ease up on the modding. I think some of us waste more time modding then enjoying. A hobby?.....sure but do not go crazy....however I am interested in Nash's banding mod. |
I tend to be in your camp… But, we're not necessarily typical here. What I've learned over the years in this forum is that CRT projectors aren't the means to an end for some (watching movies). For a lot of guys, the CRT projector IS the end. They love tinkering, they love farting around with test patterns, and scalers, focus, lenses, different resolutions, magnetics, and the list goes on…
Personally, I get all sorts of frustrated if I spend more than hour or two tweaking audio or video at this point… Pretty soon, I'm just throwing discs in and watching clips, enjoying… Then, I put the kids in bed, my wife comes down, and we watch a movie.
This hobby is really no different than any other, though… We all know the guys that collect cars, but don't drive them. Instead, they tinker with them. Replace stuff, recondition stuff, buy and sell stuff. Same with cameras… Have lots of expensive gear, test cameras and lenses, and they can tell you all about every spec and quirk on the camera, but they've never taken it out and just took pictures with it.
It would drive me insane spending all my time dinking with the gear... I built my theater so I could watch movies!
But, as they say, whatever blows yer skirt up…
SC |
I am not even sure I want to spend a hour tinkering any more.  The last real tinkering I did was building a DIY antenna to receive some OTA stations 40 miles away. I messed around with it off and on for a couple of days. It was fun, but I wouldn't make a hobby of it. In the end I just wanted to get good reception.
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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| MyCrtFellOnMe wrote: | I Know this is an old thread, but here's my two cents.
A few months ago I tried 3840x2160 on my FW900 @50Hz through my Nvidia control panel. Obviously it didn't completely resolve the image, but the difference was definitely there. I usually run them at 1920x1200@96Hz which I find the be ideal for most material, but in terms of the POP of the image (not a bad crackle pop! haha) the 3840x2160 really did look better. The hard part is trying to ignore the 50Hz flicker on a bright scene! |
CRt monitors are resolution limited by the dot pitch, CRT projectors by the capabilities of the tubes and lenses (optical). And then certainly bandwidth....
The bandwidth of your montor is high, so higher refresh rates will be resolved very good, but you dor pitch will not allow to fully resolve past 2000-2200 horizontally. But still higher resolutions can look attractive - even if not fully resolved.
Seems like you use a card that is capable of 440mhz RAMDAC. I also got this stable on hardware (a Nvidia 760 )that did not belong to me, But as I can not reproduce it, I stick to 400mhz as max resolution. If you google "RAMDAC 500mhz" there will be old cards reported to have that. And some newer cards like the Zotac 9500gt. This card belongs to me, but is a computer of a friend. I never bothered to test it, because I do not think that number is correct.
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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | I do not know why this issue keeps coming up. By the time 4k is the norm at home, there will be f*cking 24 k in the theaters. Ad I am sure by then we will have mostly been switched to a digital unit. sh*t man! I say we just enjoy what we got and ease up on the modding. I think some of us waste more time modding then enjoying. A hobby?.....sure but do not go crazy....however I am interested in Nash's banding mod. |
You opinion is welcome  .
But before 24k24p is n cinemas, Cameron and Co do want 1080p48 and than 72. Something our CRTs do since quite a time. And 72 frames will be close to what our eyes can differentiate. But you shoud vistit your favorite internet sites in a desktop resolution of 2560 (horizontal) or more. depending on you CRT it will be good or bad resolved, but it will give you a new experiance of the internet/resolutions. Something we can have now and should enjoy. Or render PC games at these resolutions....
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MyCrtFellOnMe
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Source is Gtx Titan Nvidia card, dsub15 out.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Reading about these problems with the new colour space I was thinking would a simple digital conversion to Rec 709 look that bad? I suppose some very saturated colours in nature would be a little less but would that be noticeable? It does require a scaler with CMS.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | Reading about these problems with the new colour space I was thinking would a simple digital conversion to Rec 709 look that bad? I suppose some very saturated colours in nature would be a little less but would that be noticeable? It does require a scaler with CMS. |
What new colorspace.? Is there a consumer 4K standard.?
I have a hard time to find out why anyone cares to worry about 4K.
With CRT we dont need 4K, we dont have screen door effect or anoying square pixels.
2nd we dont have the bandwidth to make it happen, no CRT can do 1080P 60hz 100%, even many digital projectors are having problems resolving 1080P 24hz right.
not even a 9" CRT blend, running 72hz will be able to resolve 4K, and running 48hz i a joke to me.
Im sure that a 4K projector with a 4K source, with better bit dept and higher native framerate will be a nice step forward for digital projection, but lets get some standards first, and something that can handle the massive amount of data correct.
We might get a few benefits with CRT with a 4K format if it will be a 1080P x 4 format we can downscale to 1080P, and if it has better bit dept, and higher native framerate, that we can double or tripple,
Last edited by stridsvognen on Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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