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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money 
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
Had the vw1000 for almost 2 years
I don't see the problem. And we talk about picture quality not loss of money.
Every projector is a loss of money, then if you want to keep up.
You have a brilliant projector and that serves a very god picture.
But time goes foreword and things get better. That's life.
I don't say that a cine 9 is a bad projector,I just say the truth
that I know things are better. And refering to a Vw1000 it's in a nother leage.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Saw it at CEDIA, but not under ideal viewing conditions, and not with ideal demo material. Not nearly as breathtaking as seeing the big JVC the year before. There are lots of first-hand accounts of it. Read the reviews. I wouldn't spend $25k on it, but then I wouldn't spend $10k on a projector, so to say I'm not exactly the target the market is an understatement.
The BR909 is an awesome machine to be sure - always wanted one. But unless you're stacking or going high-gain, an 8-9-foot wide screen is it, and you're just resolving 1080p scope material. 4k is out of the question.
With the Sony, a 10-foot screen is cake, you'll have brightness to burn, and you're fully resolving 4k once the content starts showing up. It's smaller, quieter, easier to setup, no maintenance other than swapping the lamp, and you need no external processor.
In my mind, there's no comparing the two machines. If you want to make a more relevant comparison, it would be between a VW1000ES and a 9-inch blend. That would certainly be a serious display setup, but then it's a whole different room. Huge setup and maintenance, the noise floor is going to suck in the CRT stack room, and the display itself becomes more of the hobby than "home theater" per se or watching movies.
The thread that gjaky linked to is very apropos even regarding the 909 vs. VW1000ES.
So to answer your question, no - CRT isn't "on top". Nor is digital. High-end CRT is excellent, and high-end digital is excellent, but they're different, and which will suit you depends on your priorities. Ultimate picture quality? Which aspect of picture quality? No one projector or technology is perfect in all areas. On/off and absolute black most important? How about ANSI, MTF, and resolution? How about all-around picture quality? How about sound? Is sound important to you? What about room aesthetics?
SC |
I think ecrabb summed it up quite well, so unless there is a specifik reference, and we can agree to some qualities that defines " The reference" then i think we can argue this subject forever.
Lets say perfect black is a must to be named the best.. And 16fl on a 110" 16:9 screen calibrated is a must.. and so on..bla bla bla..
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Saw it at CEDIA, but not under ideal viewing conditions, and not with ideal demo material. Not nearly as breathtaking as seeing the big JVC the year before. There are lots of first-hand accounts of it. Read the reviews. I wouldn't spend $25k on it, but then I wouldn't spend $10k on a projector, so to say I'm not exactly the target the market is an understatement.
The BR909 is an awesome machine to be sure - always wanted one. But unless you're stacking or going high-gain, an 8-9-foot wide screen is it, and you're just resolving 1080p scope material. 4k is out of the question.
With the Sony, a 10-foot screen is cake, you'll have brightness to burn, and you're fully resolving 4k once the content starts showing up. It's smaller, quieter, easier to setup, no maintenance other than swapping the lamp, and you need no external processor.
In my mind, there's no comparing the two machines. If you want to make a more relevant comparison, it would be between a VW1000ES and a 9-inch blend. That would certainly be a serious display setup, but then it's a whole different room. Huge setup and maintenance, the noise floor is going to suck in the CRT stack room, and the display itself becomes more of the hobby than "home theater" per se or watching movies.
The thread that gjaky linked to is very apropos even regarding the 909 vs. VW1000ES.
So to answer your question, no - CRT isn't "on top". Nor is digital. High-end CRT is excellent, and high-end digital is excellent, but they're different, and which will suit you depends on your priorities. Ultimate picture quality? Which aspect of picture quality? No one projector or technology is perfect in all areas. On/off and absolute black most important? How about ANSI, MTF, and resolution? How about all-around picture quality? How about sound? Is sound important to you? What about room aesthetics?
SC |
I think ecrabb summed it up quite well, so unless there is a specifik reference, and we can agree to some qualities that defines " The reference" then i think we can argue this subject forever.
Lets say perfect black is a must to be named the best.. And 16fl on a 110" 16:9 screen calibrated is a must.. and so on..bla bla bla.. |
And again you know how I do side by side tests. And I have tested a cine9 and a 909 together with a Sony VW95.
And that person changed to the vw95 after side by side testing.
And the result are the same. And a Sony vw95 is far from a Sony Vw1000. And really far.
And we have a date also with a side by side test in Denmark. You will understand then.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Saw it at CEDIA, but not under ideal viewing conditions, and not with ideal demo material. Not nearly as breathtaking as seeing the big JVC the year before. There are lots of first-hand accounts of it. Read the reviews. I wouldn't spend $25k on it, but then I wouldn't spend $10k on a projector, so to say I'm not exactly the target the market is an understatement.
The BR909 is an awesome machine to be sure - always wanted one. But unless you're stacking or going high-gain, an 8-9-foot wide screen is it, and you're just resolving 1080p scope material. 4k is out of the question.
With the Sony, a 10-foot screen is cake, you'll have brightness to burn, and you're fully resolving 4k once the content starts showing up. It's smaller, quieter, easier to setup, no maintenance other than swapping the lamp, and you need no external processor.
In my mind, there's no comparing the two machines. If you want to make a more relevant comparison, it would be between a VW1000ES and a 9-inch blend. That would certainly be a serious display setup, but then it's a whole different room. Huge setup and maintenance, the noise floor is going to suck in the CRT stack room, and the display itself becomes more of the hobby than "home theater" per se or watching movies.
The thread that gjaky linked to is very apropos even regarding the 909 vs. VW1000ES.
So to answer your question, no - CRT isn't "on top". Nor is digital. High-end CRT is excellent, and high-end digital is excellent, but they're different, and which will suit you depends on your priorities. Ultimate picture quality? Which aspect of picture quality? No one projector or technology is perfect in all areas. On/off and absolute black most important? How about ANSI, MTF, and resolution? How about all-around picture quality? How about sound? Is sound important to you? What about room aesthetics?
SC |
I think ecrabb summed it up quite well, so unless there is a specifik reference, and we can agree to some qualities that defines " The reference" then i think we can argue this subject forever.
Lets say perfect black is a must to be named the best.. And 16fl on a 110" 16:9 screen calibrated is a must.. and so on..bla bla bla.. |
And again you know how I do side by side tests. And I have tested a cine9 and a 909 together with a Sony VW95.
And that person changed to the vw95 after side by side testing.
And the result are the same. And a Sony vw95 is far from a Sony Vw1000. And really far.
And we have a date also with a side by side test in Denmark. You will understand then. |
If you dont know, then i already have a JVC RS50/ X7, and Lumagen Radiance XS, and i have seen other digital setups.
So dont put all your money on that ill change projector to a digital, in the end it all depende on preferences.
And not saying the digital is bad.. i just prefer other qualities in a image.
But im still open to new experiences, and there is nothing i would love more than prefering some gear that can be bought new.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Saw it at CEDIA, but not under ideal viewing conditions, and not with ideal demo material. Not nearly as breathtaking as seeing the big JVC the year before. There are lots of first-hand accounts of it. Read the reviews. I wouldn't spend $25k on it, but then I wouldn't spend $10k on a projector, so to say I'm not exactly the target the market is an understatement.
The BR909 is an awesome machine to be sure - always wanted one. But unless you're stacking or going high-gain, an 8-9-foot wide screen is it, and you're just resolving 1080p scope material. 4k is out of the question.
With the Sony, a 10-foot screen is cake, you'll have brightness to burn, and you're fully resolving 4k once the content starts showing up. It's smaller, quieter, easier to setup, no maintenance other than swapping the lamp, and you need no external processor.
In my mind, there's no comparing the two machines. If you want to make a more relevant comparison, it would be between a VW1000ES and a 9-inch blend. That would certainly be a serious display setup, but then it's a whole different room. Huge setup and maintenance, the noise floor is going to suck in the CRT stack room, and the display itself becomes more of the hobby than "home theater" per se or watching movies.
The thread that gjaky linked to is very apropos even regarding the 909 vs. VW1000ES.
So to answer your question, no - CRT isn't "on top". Nor is digital. High-end CRT is excellent, and high-end digital is excellent, but they're different, and which will suit you depends on your priorities. Ultimate picture quality? Which aspect of picture quality? No one projector or technology is perfect in all areas. On/off and absolute black most important? How about ANSI, MTF, and resolution? How about all-around picture quality? How about sound? Is sound important to you? What about room aesthetics?
SC |
I think ecrabb summed it up quite well, so unless there is a specifik reference, and we can agree to some qualities that defines " The reference" then i think we can argue this subject forever.
Lets say perfect black is a must to be named the best.. And 16fl on a 110" 16:9 screen calibrated is a must.. and so on..bla bla bla.. |
And again you know how I do side by side tests. And I have tested a cine9 and a 909 together with a Sony VW95.
And that person changed to the vw95 after side by side testing.
And the result are the same. And a Sony vw95 is far from a Sony Vw1000. And really far.
And we have a date also with a side by side test in Denmark. You will understand then. |
If you dont know, then i already have a JVC RS50/ X7, and Lumagen Radiance XS, and i have seen other digital setups.
So dont put all your money on that ill change projector to a digital, in the end it all depende on preferences.
And not saying the digital is bad.. i just prefer other qualities in a image.
But im still open to new experiences, and there is nothing i would love more than prefering some gear that can be bought new. |
Not my point for you to change, you have what you want. I just tell the fact.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
I believe it is closer to $25k. I am not sure how much of a discount there is or was. The rumor was one could get it at launch in the upper teens.
Just like anything, its value will drop as soon as you drive it off the lot. These CRTs that everyone here is buying or owns dropped even worse. The Sony will probably hold its value a little better, because it is the only consumer/prosumer 4k pj besides its new younger brother.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
I believe it is closer to $25k. I am not sure how much of a discount there is or was. The rumor was one could get it at launch in the upper teens.
Just like anything, its value will drop as soon as you drive it off the lot. These CRTs that everyone here is buying or owns dropped even worse. The Sony will probably hold its value a little better, because it is the only consumer/prosumer 4k pj besides its new younger brother. |
Jepp 25000 maybe some discount but around 10000 Stolen hehe.
Also prize will go up when the vw1100 is coming. That's what I've heard.
I will have a closer luck at the little brother 4K today with Sony in Oslo. I have seen it before, but I hope
That I will see and get more impressions with a vw1000 in the same room.
link to my homeCinema
http://avforum.no/myhometheater/didrik%20nilsen
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
I believe it is closer to $25k. I am not sure how much of a discount there is or was. The rumor was one could get it at launch in the upper teens.
Just like anything, its value will drop as soon as you drive it off the lot. These CRTs that everyone here is buying or owns dropped even worse. The Sony will probably hold its value a little better, because it is the only consumer/prosumer 4k pj besides its new younger brother. |
Jepp 25000 maybe some discount but around 10000 Stolen hehe.
Also prize will go up when the vw1100 is coming. That's what I've heard.
I will have a closer luck at the little brother 4K today with Sony in Oslo. I have seen it before, but I hope
That I will see and get more impressions with a vw1000 in the same room.
link to my homeCinema
http://avforum.no/myhometheater/didrik%20nilsen |
$25K is the MSRP for the VW1000, however it can be had B-stock for $15K-$17K. The VW1100 - which will have HDMI 2.0 and some other improvements - has an MSRP of $27K. There is an upgrade program that Sony will be offering for the VW1000 that will turn it into a full VW1100 for about $2500. One could therefore have a VW1100 for $17.5K - $19.5K.
Someone did bring up a good point though - REC.2020 is targeted to be the standard for UHD. It retains the same white point as REC.709, but the colors - notably green and red - are significantly more saturated than REC.709 (2020 covers over 75% of the CIE1931 color space, whereas 709 covers around 50%). The question remains as to whether any 4K display - including Sony's projectors - are capable of processing or reproducing REC.2020 colors. Several people on AVS have asked about this in the VW1000 and VW1100 threads, and no one has answered as of yet.
Not saying they're not fantastic projectors, I'm just throwing out something to consider before jumping on the UHD/4K train.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
I believe it is closer to $25k. I am not sure how much of a discount there is or was. The rumor was one could get it at launch in the upper teens.
Just like anything, its value will drop as soon as you drive it off the lot. These CRTs that everyone here is buying or owns dropped even worse. The Sony will probably hold its value a little better, because it is the only consumer/prosumer 4k pj besides its new younger brother. |
Jepp 25000 maybe some discount but around 10000 Stolen hehe.
Also prize will go up when the vw1100 is coming. That's what I've heard.
I will have a closer luck at the little brother 4K today with Sony in Oslo. I have seen it before, but I hope
That I will see and get more impressions with a vw1000 in the same room.
link to my homeCinema
http://avforum.no/myhometheater/didrik%20nilsen |
$25K is the MSRP for the VW1000, however it can be had B-stock for $15K-$17K. The VW1100 - which will have HDMI 2.0 and some other improvements - has an MSRP of $27K. There is an upgrade program that Sony will be offering for the VW1000 that will turn it into a full VW1100 for about $2500. One could therefore have a VW1100 for $17.5K - $19.5K.
Someone did bring up a good point though - REC.2020 is targeted to be the standard for UHD. It retains the same white point as REC.709, but the colors - notably green and red - are significantly more saturated than REC.709 (2020 covers over 75% of the CIE1931 color space, whereas 709 covers around 50%). The question remains as to whether any 4K display - including Sony's projectors - are capable of processing or reproducing REC.2020 colors. Several people on AVS have asked about this in the VW1000 and VW1100 threads, and no one has answered as of yet.
Not saying they're not fantastic projectors, I'm just throwing out something to consider before jumping on the UHD/4K train. |
I'm going to ask some questions today at 1800 when I meet Sony Europe about the VW500 and the HW55 for a showoff. Maybe I get some answers today  Some specific questions let me know.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off. |
I believe it is closer to $25k. I am not sure how much of a discount there is or was. The rumor was one could get it at launch in the upper teens.
Just like anything, its value will drop as soon as you drive it off the lot. These CRTs that everyone here is buying or owns dropped even worse. The Sony will probably hold its value a little better, because it is the only consumer/prosumer 4k pj besides its new younger brother. |
Jepp 25000 maybe some discount but around 10000 Stolen hehe.
Also prize will go up when the vw1100 is coming. That's what I've heard.
I will have a closer luck at the little brother 4K today with Sony in Oslo. I have seen it before, but I hope
That I will see and get more impressions with a vw1000 in the same room.
link to my homeCinema
http://avforum.no/myhometheater/didrik%20nilsen |
$25K is the MSRP for the VW1000, however it can be had B-stock for $15K-$17K. The VW1100 - which will have HDMI 2.0 and some other improvements - has an MSRP of $27K. There is an upgrade program that Sony will be offering for the VW1000 that will turn it into a full VW1100 for about $2500. One could therefore have a VW1100 for $17.5K - $19.5K.
Someone did bring up a good point though - REC.2020 is targeted to be the standard for UHD. It retains the same white point as REC.709, but the colors - notably green and red - are significantly more saturated than REC.709 (2020 covers over 75% of the CIE1931 color space, whereas 709 covers around 50%). The question remains as to whether any 4K display - including Sony's projectors - are capable of processing or reproducing REC.2020 colors. Several people on AVS have asked about this in the VW1000 and VW1100 threads, and no one has answered as of yet.
Not saying they're not fantastic projectors, I'm just throwing out something to consider before jumping on the UHD/4K train. |
I'm going to ask some questions today at 1800 when I meet Sony Europe about the VW500 and the HW55 for a showoff. Maybe I get some answers today Some specific questions let me know. |
Please ask if the VW500 (and the VW1100) are capable of processing and reproducing the full REC.2020 gamut. Much appreciated!
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | I'm going to ask some questions today at 1800 when I meet Sony Europe about the VW500 and the HW55 for a showoff. Maybe I get some answers today Some specific questions let me know. |
Please ask if the VW500 (and the VW1100) are capable of processing and reproducing the full REC.2020 gamut. Much appreciated!
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's on the list😎
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | I'm going to ask some questions today at 1800 when I meet Sony Europe about the VW500 and the HW55 for a showoff. Maybe I get some answers today Some specific questions let me know. |
Please ask if the VW500 (and the VW1100) are capable of processing and reproducing the full REC.2020 gamut. Much appreciated! |
About the rec2020 that is a recommended standard not yet set for Uhd. So answer is no.
And not for any other product yet in the world. This colour standard make Rgb Look A big Joke And also Dci that the vw1000 and vw1100 has.
So first it have to be the standard. Then Sony and others will get in they're products.
And no 4k tv is even near to show this at all.
About the motion its better and much more complex. Than on the vw1000 but be the same when upgraded to the vw1100.Has
And maybe better for some if you like motion.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: Vw500 vs Vw1000 and Vw1100 |
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Visible comparing the vw500 to the vw1000
The vw1000 is visible better in picture dynamic , better visible contrast, and clearly better intrasene contrast.
Sharpness some better because of better opptic and lenses but less notable.
But in total after seen this vw500 2 times and today more in detail I would say.
An extreamly god projector. And for me the benefit of a 4k projector is the skaling to 4K from what
We use today. And the reality creation is magic.. This is a real native 4K projector not some sort of making more pixels in a 1080 panel.
We talk real 4K.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: |
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In case you have the chance and the money to buy a new in the box Barco Cine 9 (price less or equal VW1000) what would you do 
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | In case you have the chance and the money to buy a new in the box Barco Cine 9 (price less or equal VW1000) what would you do |
110%
A Sony vw1000
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:18 am Post subject: |
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You know that this is a CRT forum ? 
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | You know that this is a CRT forum ? |
OK sorry my fault 110% a Cine 9 
hehe
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | You know that this is a CRT forum ? |
Did you test the sharpness picture I sent you? Did it get better?
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | I'm going to ask some questions today at 1800 when I meet Sony Europe about the VW500 and the HW55 for a showoff. Maybe I get some answers today Some specific questions let me know. |
Please ask if the VW500 (and the VW1100) are capable of processing and reproducing the full REC.2020 gamut. Much appreciated! |
About the rec2020 that is a recommended standard not yet set for Uhd. So answer is no.
And not for any other product yet in the world. This colour standard make Rgb Look A big Joke And also Dci that the vw1000 and vw1100 has.
So first it have to be the standard. Then Sony and others will get in they're products.
And no 4k tv is even near to show this at all.
About the motion its better and much more complex. Than on the vw1000 but be the same when upgraded to the vw1100.Has
And maybe better for some if you like motion. |
Thanks for the answer on that, I suspected as much. Although REC.2020 is only recommended, and not the standard for UHD, I would love to see it become the standard. It will only benefit the consumer!
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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