CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[larryp]

Looked at a Sharp 80" tv at Best Buy.
Was surprised they're also trying to sell me a $250 calibration with the set? And a $200 hookup fee?? Is that needed?

Is that really needed to have a great picture? IMO should be included in the price. Seems nuts to spend $3500 and extra to get it calibrated

[Curt Palme]

Well, look at it two or three ways:

1) Most sets out of the box are not properly color calibrated if you're talking a color spectrum that's supposed to be accurate. So you need a colorimeter to properly set the colors. Does Best Buy have ISF certified guys? Who knows, but I'd ask. If they don't use a colorimeter to set the hidden internal menus, then to me it's not worth the $200.

2) Most people won't know the difference between a calibrated and an out of the box set. Once you see a properly ISFed set, then chances are you will see the difference, but to the layman, it is indeed wasted money.

3) As for the hookup, guaranteed that BB makes more money on upselling the $100 HDMI Cables than they are making on the set itself. Now, spending $200 to get a pro to wall mount a set is well worth it, as the $3500 price tag is on them if they drop it... if that $200 includes installation on a wall. If you're table mounting it, then do it yourself. If you know what you're doing with cables, then buy some generic cables and forget hiring BB to do it.

[Curt Palme]

Well, look at it two or three ways:

1) Most sets out of the box are not properly color calibrated if you're talking a color spectrum that's supposed to be accurate. So you need a colorimeter to properly set the colors. Does Best Buy have ISF certified guys? Who knows, but I'd ask. If they don't use a colorimeter to set the hidden internal menus, then to me it's not worth the $200.

2) Most people won't know the difference between a calibrated and an out of the box set. Once you see a properly ISFed set, then chances are you will see the difference, but to the layman, it is indeed wasted money.

3) As for the hookup, guaranteed that BB makes more money on upselling the $100 HDMI Cables than they are making on the set itself. Now, spending $200 to get a pro to wall mount a set is well worth it, as the $3500 price tag is on them if they drop it... if that $200 includes installation on a wall. If you're table mounting it, then do it yourself. If you know what you're doing with cables, then buy some generic cables and forget hiring BB to do it.

[km987654]

[ecrabb]

Larry,

TVs are set to look bright and colorful in the store, not to display an accurate image. Calibration is a form of optimization, ensuring the TV is as close to standards as possible with regard to primaries, gamut, gamma, and grayscale linearity. The process requires expensive equipment and a very specialized skill set, so $250 is not out of line at all for a professional calibration. Now, whether Best Buy is or is not a good choice for a calibrator is a different question. I would ask whether they have ISF-trained technicians, whether they have a colorimeter, and whether they generate any kind report on the TVs performance.

As for the $200 connection fee, I would assume that's 'white glove delivery', meaning a couple of guys show up with the set and unbox it (no small feat with an 80" set), set it up on a stand or table, connect your sources, and take away the giant box. If you don't like the price, you can do all that yourself and save the $200. I would assume that's not wall-mounting; the mount alone (at retail) would be $100+. As Curt mentioned, TVs are cut-throat, and margins have all but evaporated on all but the very largest TVs.

Like Curt, I would assume that Best Buy is probably making less on the $3500 TV sale than they would the ISF calibration or the installation. The margins are so bad, they basically have to do installations, mounts, cables, and service plans. Everybody laughs at them, but it's really the only way they can make money any more. There's better profit in the service plans on TVs than there are the TVs themselves. The margins have gotten so bad, many professional installers don't even sell TVs anymore; instead, they just have their customers buy a TV at Best Buy, and the installer hangs it for the customer as part of a larger install.

You know things are messed up when, as a professional installer, your customer can buy a Samsung, LG, or Panasonic TV cheaper from Amazon than you can as a dealer reseller.

SC

[larryp]

Best price I've seen is $3185 online with free shipping & a wall mount.

[larryp]

Thank You everyone for the information. I looked at Best Buy's website, their calibration people got a lot of negative reviews. Site says they're ISF certified to.

The installation seems ok in price since I'd have it wall mounted. This would be a second tv for the basement, my sony 1272 is still my main unit.

[Curt Palme]

that is pretty impressive!

I'm curious though how many will be thrown out within 5 years due to bad panels? Seems the larger the panel, the more likely they are to delaminate, causing a dark picture of weird colors...

[Curt Palme]

that is pretty impressive!

I'm curious though how many will be thrown out within 5 years due to bad panels? Seems the larger the panel, the more likely they are to delaminate, causing a dark picture of weird colors...

[ecrabb]

[Curt Palme]

Let me play devil's advocate though on the calibration. My guess is that the unwashed masses may not actually like a properly calibrated set. I guess it really depends on the calibrator, right?

I've shown MANY people how a straight-out-of-the-box set is wayyy out of calibration, simply with the color saturation level. For people that have been used to Technioolor faces (why do people in HD snow scenes look like they've been tanning in Hawaii for 6 months?), they may find an accurate color level washed out.

However, I'm also skeptical of a $200 ISF job. If the calibrator were any good, he wouldn't be working for BEst Buy.

Someone like Craig really needs to chime in here. He's fully qualified, but won't do a $200 calibration job.

[Curt Palme]

Let me play devil's advocate though on the calibration. My guess is that the unwashed masses may not actually like a properly calibrated set. I guess it really depends on the calibrator, right?

I've shown MANY people how a straight-out-of-the-box set is wayyy out of calibration, simply with the color saturation level. For people that have been used to Technioolor faces (why do people in HD snow scenes look like they've been tanning in Hawaii for 6 months?), they may find an accurate color level washed out.

However, I'm also skeptical of a $200 ISF job. If the calibrator were any good, he wouldn't be working for BEst Buy.

Someone like Craig really needs to chime in here. He's fully qualified, but won't do a $200 calibration job.

[CIR Engineering]

I've calibrated quite a few of these sets and they benefit tremendously from calibration. These are some of the worst sets I have ever seen out of the box. Even laymen can see it. My Aunt and Uncle bought one of these and the two of them are far from videophiles and could usually care less. The two of them couldn't wait for me to get to their house to "fix" their TV and actually make it watchable. I had low expectations, but I was surprised how well the set came out after I calibrated it. It really was pretty nice.

BestBuy is not really a good choice for calibration as you have found in your research. You do get what you pay for in calibration services. Locally, I charge 2x what BB charges because I have actual skill and knowledge, a research lab grade spectroradiometter, a lab grade colorimeter, and professional software that generates a before and after report. I also support my clients long after the calibration services.

craigr

[ecrabb]

Craig, not to dissuade anybody from using your services, because I personally think calibration is well worth it... But, for a lot of these sets, isn't just setting the color temp, brightness/contrast, saturation, etc. make a huge improvement? I realize that won't change primaries, or fix gamma or grayscale tracking, but I've found it's usually pretty easy to make the set look much better than it does out of the box, by eye, just with basic/advanced controls.

SC

[larryp]

I never buy extended warranties, but after what's been said about this item, should I look into getting one?

Never owned a flat screen of this size.

[CIR Engineering]

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[nuttall_chris]

[Curt Palme]

Wow, really! Goes to show what I know.

Frankly, for $100, I'd probably buy it if I were getting the set. I'd read the fine print though. What if the set's LCD panel fails at 4.5 years, and it's no longer available? Will they replace the set?

[Curt Palme]

Wow, really! Goes to show what I know.

Frankly, for $100, I'd probably buy it if I were getting the set. I'd read the fine print though. What if the set's LCD panel fails at 4.5 years, and it's no longer available? Will they replace the set?

[nuttall_chris]

[Curt Palme]

Well, the only catch is, they offered 'extended warranties' on my CRT projector sales for a long time too, and they said to take the set to any local TV shop, which of course is crap. Haven't gotten any emails from them in a long time, so I assume their connection with eBay is long gone?

[Curt Palme]

Well, the only catch is, they offered 'extended warranties' on my CRT projector sales for a long time too, and they said to take the set to any local TV shop, which of course is crap. Haven't gotten any emails from them in a long time, so I assume their connection with eBay is long gone?

[CasetheCorvetteman]

[km987654]