CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[kal]

So I finally had some time last night to put my Display 3 meter and ChromaPure calibration software to the test and measure how this RS56 does out of the box after ~500 hours of use.

I've always thought that the results (pre-calibration) looked pretty phenominal and were probably pretty close to perfect and now I've confirmed it.

Greyscale/Gamma:



The important thing to look at is the CIE94 error (DeltaE) values. This is a numerical value of how far off the greyscale is from the target from 10% to 100% light output (stimulus). While 0 is perfection, the goal is to try and keep DeltaE under 10 for each point. A DeltaE of 3 or under is so close to perfect that the human eye cannot detect the subtle imperfection. My points are (IMHO) very good with the highest being 5.7 at 50%.

A little too much blue in in the middle range as you can see. Lowering blue or possibly raising the other two at the low end should fix it.

A little bit of tweaking and these DeltaE numbers will get a bit lower but it's really questionable with already deltaE's so low if the difference will be noticeable.

Gamma tracks pretty well between 2.3 and 2.2 (which is where I want it). About 2.2-2.4 is ideal.

I've chosen the 6500K setting and gamma set to "normal" but that doesn't mean someone else doing the same will get the same results as above (hence the whole reason why we calibrate).

I really lucked out with this unit.

The observant reader will note that I'm "only" getting 9.5 ftL of light output at 100% when SMPTE really says you should be doing around 12-14 ftL. I find this 9.5 in my darkened basement to be very bright and couldn't imagine or want more even after trying it out for a while. I find it overly bright. I have the lamp running on low lamp with the iris set to -6 (it goes from -15 [closed] to 0 [open] where 0 is brightest). So there's certainly room to go brighter if needed.

Colour Gamut:



Again, theCIE95 (DeltaE) are very good with the highest being 3.6 for the green. This means that the primary/secondary colours are pretty darned closed to perfect on my unit when using the "Film" colour profile/picture mode.

This doesn't tell us anything however about how well the colours track inside the triangle (inside the gamut). Some displays can be really off in there (example pictures here) but still be great at the primary/secondary points.

So I still want to go in and measure inside the gamut to see how much adding a 125 calibration with a Radiance video processor would help.

Even if it doesn't help much I do like the fact that the Radiance can also do 20 point greyscale and gamma, and do it all automatically in ChromaPure without me having to mess with the menus, or tweak the unit every ~6 months (because I know I won't), or even really have me have to understand what I'm doing. (My brain is full).

Kal

[kal]

So I finally had some time last night to put my Display 3 meter and ChromaPure calibration software to the test and measure how this RS56 does out of the box after ~500 hours of use.

I've always thought that the results (pre-calibration) looked pretty phenominal and were probably pretty close to perfect and now I've confirmed it.

Greyscale/Gamma:



The important thing to look at is the CIE94 error (DeltaE) values. This is a numerical value of how far off the greyscale is from the target from 10% to 100% light output (stimulus). While 0 is perfection, the goal is to try and keep DeltaE under 10 for each point. A DeltaE of 3 or under is so close to perfect that the human eye cannot detect the subtle imperfection. My points are (IMHO) very good with the highest being 5.7 at 50%.

A little too much blue in in the middle range as you can see. Lowering blue or possibly raising the other two at the low end should fix it.

A little bit of tweaking and these DeltaE numbers will get a bit lower but it's really questionable with already deltaE's so low if the difference will be noticeable.

Gamma tracks pretty well between 2.3 and 2.2 (which is where I want it). About 2.2-2.4 is ideal.

I've chosen the 6500K setting and gamma set to "normal" but that doesn't mean someone else doing the same will get the same results as above (hence the whole reason why we calibrate).

I really lucked out with this unit.

The observant reader will note that I'm "only" getting 9.5 ftL of light output at 100% when SMPTE really says you should be doing around 12-14 ftL. I find this 9.5 in my darkened basement to be very bright and couldn't imagine or want more even after trying it out for a while. I find it overly bright. I have the lamp running on low lamp with the iris set to -6 (it goes from -15 [closed] to 0 [open] where 0 is brightest). So there's certainly room to go brighter if needed.

Colour Gamut:



Again, theCIE95 (DeltaE) are very good with the highest being 3.6 for the green. This means that the primary/secondary colours are pretty darned closed to perfect on my unit when using the "Film" colour profile/picture mode.

This doesn't tell us anything however about how well the colours track inside the triangle (inside the gamut). Some displays can be really off in there (example pictures here) but still be great at the primary/secondary points.

So I still want to go in and measure inside the gamut to see how much adding a 125 calibration with a Radiance video processor would help.

Even if it doesn't help much I do like the fact that the Radiance can also do 20 point greyscale and gamma, and do it all automatically in ChromaPure without me having to mess with the menus, or tweak the unit every ~6 months (because I know I won't), or even really have me have to understand what I'm doing. (My brain is full).

Kal

[stridsvognen]

Kal, i'm curious how the primary point tracks with 25-50-75-100%% IRE, is it possible you can measure that.?

[kal]

I'm curious too.. it's on my todo list.

Kal

[kal]

I'm curious too.. it's on my todo list.

Kal

[garyfritz]

[kal]

Good point Gary, but that doesn't change the fact that 12-14 ftL is what most calibrators recommend *today*, and this is in the day and age of digital projectors where full field vs window doesn't change the light output. The 12-14 ftL recommended output isn't a throwback to CRT (AFAIK). I see it recommended everywhere, including the ChromaPure help which states:

[kal]

Good point Gary, but that doesn't change the fact that 12-14 ftL is what most calibrators recommend *today*, and this is in the day and age of digital projectors where full field vs window doesn't change the light output. The 12-14 ftL recommended output isn't a throwback to CRT (AFAIK). I see it recommended everywhere, including the ChromaPure help which states:

[VideoGrabber]

[kal]

[kal]

[stridsvognen]

I dont think you will ever change to high output mode, even if it gets to dim, it wont help much, and only accelerate the dimming. Now your using the new type lamp, so its exiting how long yours will last with a decent output.

Do you have a Radiance ?

[kal]

Last night I measured the primary/secondary numbers again at 100% saturation as well as at 75%, 50%, and 25% to see how well it tracked.

ChromaPure calibration software has a really handy feature to do this and the free AVS HD709 test disc has the patterns needed. (Note: Oddly enough the patterns under their ChromaPure section aren't in the order that ChromaPure asks for - they're laid out as 75%, 50%, and then 25% in the disc when you skip through but ChromaPure asks for the patterns in the 25%, 50%,75% order. So some jumping around was required. Still only took 5 mins to do however, just seems odd).

Here are the results:




So as you can see, it tracks really well inside the gamut (between 0 and 100% saturation). Very linear. The highest deltaE errors are mostly at the 100% saturations which can be corrected with the built in projector CMS and the others will likely follow a bit.

That said, the highest dE is the green at 100% saturation but it's still under 4 which is well below the 10 target that we want to achieve. Anything below 3 is considered (for the most part) perfect and not something we'll notice with the human eye. So it's even questionable whether the 100% primaries/secondaries are worth adjusting. They certainly don't look 'off' with regular source material.

(EDIT: I've got ChromaPure set up to use the CIE94 method of calculating dE since it's the default and what they recommend, but ChromaPure does recommend keeping dE below 2.0 if possible for greyscale measurements and below 1.5 for primary/secondary colours, not below 3.0.)

While this doesn't show all of the billions of points possible it gives you a good indication of how well the projector does inside the gamut.

Using something like the Radiance 125 point colour cube correction through the advanced auto-calibration offered by ChromaPure to adjust inside the gamut will likely have little to no noticeable result.

Kal

[kal]

Last night I measured the primary/secondary numbers again at 100% saturation as well as at 75%, 50%, and 25% to see how well it tracked.

ChromaPure calibration software has a really handy feature to do this and the free AVS HD709 test disc has the patterns needed. (Note: Oddly enough the patterns under their ChromaPure section aren't in the order that ChromaPure asks for - they're laid out as 75%, 50%, and then 25% in the disc when you skip through but ChromaPure asks for the patterns in the 25%, 50%,75% order. So some jumping around was required. Still only took 5 mins to do however, just seems odd).

Here are the results:




So as you can see, it tracks really well inside the gamut (between 0 and 100% saturation). Very linear. The highest deltaE errors are mostly at the 100% saturations which can be corrected with the built in projector CMS and the others will likely follow a bit.

That said, the highest dE is the green at 100% saturation but it's still under 4 which is well below the 10 target that we want to achieve. Anything below 3 is considered (for the most part) perfect and not something we'll notice with the human eye. So it's even questionable whether the 100% primaries/secondaries are worth adjusting. They certainly don't look 'off' with regular source material.

(EDIT: I've got ChromaPure set up to use the CIE94 method of calculating dE since it's the default and what they recommend, but ChromaPure does recommend keeping dE below 2.0 if possible for greyscale measurements and below 1.5 for primary/secondary colours, not below 3.0.)

While this doesn't show all of the billions of points possible it gives you a good indication of how well the projector does inside the gamut.

Using something like the Radiance 125 point colour cube correction through the advanced auto-calibration offered by ChromaPure to adjust inside the gamut will likely have little to no noticeable result.

Kal

[stridsvognen]

looks nice.. Wish JVC would support the older models with firmware, so they behaved like yours, looks like the green is in the same place as the older models, so that might be the limitation to the panel.

But as you mention.. its quite close, and perfectly ok.

Now we are all waiting to see how looks like when you get it calibrated..

[kal]

[kal]

[VideoGrabber]

[Spanky Ham]

I can't remember if you posted Kris's review in this thread or not. Here is his latest review:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/jvc-dla-x95r-3d-d-ila-projector

It looks like Kris had a successful HT meet recently. In one of the pics, it looked like Itai was there. I wonder if Crabb went.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/demos-and-prizes-%E2%80%A6-lots-prizes-dominate-pacific-northwest-home-theater-meetup


Finally, Cedia is three weeks away. It sounds like there won't be anything revolutionary from JVC this year. They just keep evolving year after year into one of the best price/performance digital pjs on the market. On the flip side, Sony is coming out with a new 4k. Still to expensive (rumored $10k to $12k), but next year we should be in the $5k to $10k range.

[ecrabb]

No Itai or Crabb at that meet. Would have liked to have gone, but haven't been to the Pacific Northwest in forever.

Definitely looking forward to seeing what's at CEDIA in terms of 4k, and what happens to availability and prices compared to last year. It was just three years ago that I coined the term "3DEDIA" because everybody was showing or talking about 3D. I think there were 3D recliners, power cables, and carpet that year. That was the same year I saw the big 4K JVC, which the redefined one aspect of home theater for me. Much, much more excited about 4k than I ever was about 3D.

SC

[kal]

Thanks for the link to Kris's review of the X95 Spanky. I was interested in reading it since I was toying with the idea of the X75 vs X95 myself when I purchased, and not being able to really see both in ideal setups (or any setups for that matter) ahead of time had me 'guessing' at the perceived difference in video quality.

Kris wrote in his review:

[kal]

Thanks for the link to Kris's review of the X95 Spanky. I was interested in reading it since I was toying with the idea of the X75 vs X95 myself when I purchased, and not being able to really see both in ideal setups (or any setups for that matter) ahead of time had me 'guessing' at the perceived difference in video quality.

Kris wrote in his review:

[Spanky Ham]

[AVphile]

I am curious to see if a new color standard emerges before jumping on a new 4k PJ. Right now we are still using CRT-based standards so I don't see the point of trying to emulate CRT characteristics with a digital while I still have a functioning CRT. My ears would benefit more due to the lower noise floor.

[overclkr]

[benareeno]

resolution is so freaking overrated...there are far more important things which would improve the picture quality.

[ecrabb]