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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Thats a pretty special machine youve built there Keith, its somewhat of a credit to your dedication mate, i think its very well done. |
Thanks Case
I just like to have something a little different. |
How does it luck when you see picture? Send the nec pattern. 
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | Unless Greg does make his fully custom and all original boards for the barco the 3,5GHz bandwidth is bs. even in the preamp section... ALL circuit boards in consumer electronics made from the FR4 material (or worse), that is only usable at frequencies bellow 1GHz, that is a fact, over that the board itself simply eats the signal. Greg who has so much experience with microwawe circuits really should know this... |
So true!
But I would go further and add that the board material and circuit design (on all of them) would even present challenges below 500mhz as well.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | I had a 808 with P16 tubes and HD144 years ago and this was superb in sharpness without mods.
It's all about a good setup i think. |
Crt is all about god setup correct. And having good time to tweak. And what I see is that since you do not have anything to compare form before when you adjust, you cant know if its getting some better. You just think. Then if its not big differences then.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | Barco used HD117 and HD215 LC short throw and no colored C-elements.
Scam? I don't know but I agree that it would be usefull to have some more information.
And still I think you can't compare a AC modded 808 with an 9" 909. For example I know that a AC 808 have a lot of halo issues due to reflections which will influence contrast aspect ratio.
I think the best comparison would be a modded and not modded 909 side by side or with or without mods in same HT and footage with same camera same source etc, etc.
Then we could really tell if there are improvements in: Picture noise, BW, ghosting, banding, ringing, color and gamma. |
Forgot thy NEC pattern picture?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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correction on lenses he used color coated HD145 he used the HD144 before. Sorry
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thats AC. No match for 9" LC. Not by a long shot.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Thats AC. No match for 9" LC. Not by a long shot. |
I fully agree Case, not only LC but also the whole convergence etc. is arranged differently. The 909 is A LOT different to a 808. Most things are done by it's processor and controller board. I'm in contact with Greg to get some more information about the modifications and what it can do for a 909. Also I asked if he will bring me in contact with someone who has a 909 or Cine9 with his mods.
But i'm also interested to see what it will do to a 808s so Diddern let us know 
I will post some pictures of the Nec pattern don't you worry, but most time I like to watch movies instead of nec patterns 
I also will try to feed the Barco with RGBHV from the crystalio instead of the moome to see if this will give better 1:1 H/V light output and same sharpness.
_________________
Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Thats AC. No match for 9" LC. Not by a long shot. |
I fully agree Case, not only LC but also the whole convergence etc. is arranged differently. The 909 is A LOT different to a 808. Most things are done by it's processor and controller board. I'm in contact with Greg to get some more information about the modifications and what it can do for a 909. Also I asked if he will bring me in contact with someone who has a 909 or Cine9 with his mods.
But i'm also interested to see what it will do to a 808s so Diddern let us know
I will post some pictures of the Nec pattern don't you worry, but most time I like to watch movies instead of nec patterns
I also will try to feed the Barco with RGBHV from the crystalio instead of the moome to see if this will give better 1:1 H/V light output and same sharpness. |
Remember I also think that a 9" will be better in every way, but a less cost way, close to a 9" maybe...
Then the question what do the new simulator tubes do?
What do the mod cards do
Because a original 808 have no chance at all... But send the NEC pattern,,,,, that show more than sharpness.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | But send the NEC pattern,,,,, that show more than sharpness. |
That NEC pattern is not a real measuring tool for the systems were using. It is the most distorted test pattern I've played with.
Nothing in that pattern is distinct in detail.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | But send the NEC pattern,,,,, that show more than sharpness. |
That NEC pattern is not a real measuring tool for the systems were using. It is the most distorted test pattern I've played with.
Nothing in that pattern is distinct in detail. |
Hi Mike, I'm happy to post some pictures which test patterns should I use for this?
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Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | But send the NEC pattern,,,,, that show more than sharpness. |
That NEC pattern is not a real measuring tool for the systems were using. It is the most distorted test pattern I've played with.
Nothing in that pattern is distinct in detail. |
Hi Mike, I'm happy to post some pictures which test patterns should I use for this? |
This pattern is not a pattern that shows more than sharpness, but give a god indication on how good the projector is to show black and white together.
And for crt this pattern is not the best I know. But it shows 1080P Then what you see.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | But send the NEC pattern,,,,, that show more than sharpness. |
That NEC pattern is not a real measuring tool for the systems were using. It is the most distorted test pattern I've played with.
Nothing in that pattern is distinct in detail. |
of Corse its just a pattern to adjust sharpness with in my eyes.
Afraid of something ? hehe
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Use a Sony Blu Ray. When it gets to the menu press: 7669
it will then go to the internal test patterns on the disk, you will see the color pattern show up....press forward once to take it to the next pattern (Sinepattern) and then push PAUSE....
This pattern in the Sony Blu Ray is THE best way to adjust center focus. It is also the BEST WAY to get the focus near perfect for native 1080P HD Sources.
The NEC pattern is better for 480I or 480P. Above those two rates it literally falls apart. Mainly because, in order for it to be a good focus pattern, it would have to be a good 1080P pattern first that would also have the same lines or center pattern found in the Sony internal test pattern.
For CRT, the NEC pattern would do near nothing to dial your projector in for proper 1080P resolution , because it would have to be a NATIVE pattern.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | Use a Sony Blu Ray. When it gets to the menu press: 7669
it will then go to the internal test patterns on the disk, you will see the color pattern show up....press forward once to take it to the next pattern (Sinepattern) and then push PAUSE....
This pattern in the Sony Blu Ray is THE best way to adjust center focus. It is also the BEST WAY to get the focus near perfect for native 1080P HD Sources.
The NEC pattern is better for 480I or 480P. Above those two rates it literally falls apart. Mainly because, in order for it to be a good focus pattern, it would have to be a good 1080P pattern first that would also have the same lines or center pattern found in the Sony internal test pattern.
For CRT, the NEC pattern would do near nothing to dial your projector in for proper 1080P resolution , because it would have to be a NATIVE pattern. |
Hehe hehe that show more than you think visible, but do near nothing to dial your projector in for proper 1080P resolution, correct
But I suspect that you have done that before taking this picture hehe
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Diddern, i think Mike knows more than you think.
I saw above you think a modded 8" AC is close to a 9" LC, but its not, they are in a completely different league. Especially when it comes to showing white beside black.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ok guys here we go… First for diddern the nec pattern…. remember 1080p60hz Canon 40D EF 24-70 2.8 (with chromatic aberration) Picture downsized for this forum.
Projector Barco 909 SP colored elements, new lugs tubes NO MODS, PC > crystalio > moome V2 ext. port 5. ISF calibrated by professional.
1080p60hz
Dune HD Max > crystalio 3300 > analog 5 bnc cable (oehlbach)
I don't see any improvement here for example on BW only less sharpness and more ghosting. Don't get the same results here as casecorvetteman.
Dune HD > crystalio 3300 > moome v2
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Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Your NEC pic there is MILES sharper than the one Diddern posted. Its night and day.
What RGB connecting cable are you using? Mine is everybit as sharp with both.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Your NEC pic there is MILES sharper than the one Diddern posted. Its night and day.
What RGB connecting cable are you using? Mine is everybit as sharp with both. |
Night and day OK
I rest my case.
The hw55 picture compared night and day.
The 909 is some better, so the tubes and mods do something.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 am Post subject: |
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What I see, just better sharpness.
You see the scan lines better on the 909 therefore also sharper.
I am shocked that you say night and day. And if we talk about night and day the light. More than 2 times the punch in picture on the 808.
But again not same camera and same room.
Here all 3 together. And the 909 is better than the 808 from this picture.
I also see form the other pictures that the 909 have a very nice sharpness, and showing black between lines in the test pattern.
On the 909 you have allot of converges adjustments and it's possible to get the 1:1 better then more similar light then just small adjustments.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: |
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The 909 is better, his shot is better than yours, HQF900s are better than HD-145s, NEC is better than Barco, LC is better than AC, Coke is better than Pepsi, Mercedes is better than BMW, James Bond is tougher than John McClane, Rothmans are better than Marlboro, Glenfidich is better than Jack Daniels, and anything else i may have forgotten.
Im really amazed you brought up "punch"... Thats desperate isnt it
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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