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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: |
I guess some just can't do it correctly hence the cut the leads suggestion.
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Are you suggesting that this applies to Curt and Tinman? |
Touche!!!, lol no thats not what I meant. I guess for speed doing it that way is the best way.
But For drags he likes it to look factory done for his customers, so he and others who also like that look
remove the entire leg. Although Ivor Catt would argue you need to keep the legs as short as possible
on Capacitors. So .....
http://www.ivorcatt.com/2603.htm
Athanasios
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: |
I guess some just can't do it correctly hence the cut the leads suggestion.
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Are you suggesting that this applies to Curt and Tinman? |
Touche!!!, lol no thats not what I meant. I guess for speed doing it that way is the best way.
But For drags he likes it to look factory done for his customers, so he and others who also like that look
remove the entire leg. Although Ivor Catt would argue you need to keep the legs as short as possible
on Capacitors. So .....
http://www.ivorcatt.com/2603.htm
Athanasios |
So, and speaking NEC only here, would a customer prefer a new cap soldered to the legs of the old cap oooooor, the new cap installed completely and a bunch of other added wires to reconnect the broken traces in the replacement process (pictures available upon request)? And how would that equate into the short leg theory? 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: |
I guess some just can't do it correctly hence the cut the leads suggestion.
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Are you suggesting that this applies to Curt and Tinman? |
Touche!!!, lol no thats not what I meant. I guess for speed doing it that way is the best way.
But For drags he likes it to look factory done for his customers, so he and others who also like that look
remove the entire leg. Although Ivor Catt would argue you need to keep the legs as short as possible
on Capacitors. So .....
http://www.ivorcatt.com/2603.htm
Athanasios |
So, and speaking NEC only here, would a customer prefer a new cap soldered to the legs of the old cap oooooor, the new cap installed completely and a bunch of other added wires to reconnect the broken traces in the replacement process (pictures available upon request)? And how would that equate into the short leg theory? |
Hopefully I'll never see that type of mutilation!! I don't know how you guys deal with that day in and day out.
And I bitch about watery eggs from my purveyors!!
nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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NEC boards use ordinary solder. There is NO reason to cut the leads off anything here. I never do. The key is a proper heat range tip on your iron. I use a Metcal vacuum gun, so it's quick work for me. The key is to keep the tip clean and apply a little bit of fresh solder before pulling the part out. Always comes out clean.
As to cutting leads, yes, I have done it on some network switches and computer boards. The reason for this is speed. The customer didn't care about looks, and did not want to take the entire device apart to get to the bottom of the board. Also, that damn ROHS solder coupled with very tight holes on the PCB can be a real bastard to de-solder. But it can be done.
I would not recommend this technique on NEC boards because it's not needed. BUT.... sometimes it is safer if you don't have the best tools for the job.
Of course, in my case it helps to have an entire WALL of bins full of capacitors handy for whatever needs.
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This space for rent.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: |
I would not recommend this technique on NEC boards because it's not needed.
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I disagree with this totally but I will leave it at that. I have piles and piles of NEC boards here with damaged traces caused by 2 issues, 1 being just trying to remove leaded components. NEC traces are exceptionally thin especially at connection points. Now I'm not going to argue this point any further and the OP can do what ever he wants. All i know is it's getting to a point where I'm not going to be repairing these boards any further if people are going to continue damaging them when warnings were given.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | No, ive never done that, but ive seen it done. The board soaks up the heat and the solder part solidifies when the iron cant keep up. I never use solder wick cause i dont like it. |
nothing to add here
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | But still, how many NEC boards have you done against Curt or Macgyver or Tinman? Youre always so quick to jump in and discredit them and their sugestions, but where is your experience? They all have it in droves, they have tons of it, |
I have never even tried to discredited anything Curt posted, much less Tinman, Nash, and all the other people on here who do electronics daily. You just pulled that out of your butt too. I posted an alternate method, one that i like, and then you commented on it as something "you've seen done" and it's wrong. AAMOF here's what you did
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | I did an entire set worth of boards using a cheap 45 watt soldering iron and a GOOT solder sucker and never damaged a thing, but thats not the point, i sure as hell would not be doing it that way again when its WAY easier to cut the legs off or pull the cap off its legs with pliers  |
Who's credibility is lacking here?
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Curt or Tinman strongly advise against conventional de-soldering methods on NEC boards ( and this is an NEC only related thread ) then you come along with one or two PG sets worth of experience and no real idea and tell us all that you know better than they do and you suggest using solder wick on a multi layered board??? Get real man... |
wrong | Tinman wrote: | | NEC boards use ordinary solder. There is NO reason to cut the leads off anything here. I never do. The key is a proper heat range tip on your iron. I use a Metcal vacuum gun, so it's quick work for me. The key is to keep the tip clean and apply a little bit of fresh solder before pulling the part out. Always comes out clean. |
from my understanding of the above post, sounds very similar to what I said. Use fresh solder and quality tools. There's a number of different ways to work on something if you have the right tools.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | You love to resort to name calling though dont you, shows the strength of your case i guess |
it's just you, you and maybe 1 or 2 other people on here who pull opinions out of your ass and have no facts, experience, or even good second hand knowledge to back it up. Here's a helpful hint, if you had simply posted "in my opinion wick can be a risky good tool and I've seen it damage boards" We wouldn't even be having this discussion. Instead, you posted
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Solder wicking an NEC board is a damn fine way to tear off a trace when the solder cools and is still stuck to the board... |
you don't f*ck*** know that . I have direct experience to the contrary after replacing dozens of capacitors and ZERO damage to NEC boards. Thousands of Capacitors and zero damage to marquee boards.
And I don't do just through hole wire leaded stuff. I've replaced delicate Op amps, SMD parts, and other custom work with insulating sleeves, stacked components, etc. the key is temperature control, cleanliness, adding fresh solder to old joints, and quality tools.
Look, i'll make the same deal with you I made with a couple of other people. Since I have zero interest in your posts, I will refrain from commenting or replying to them. If you could reciprocate that , then we can "all just get along"
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dragan, you clearly have alot of knowledge in some areas. The second someone calls you on it you jump straight down their throat and claim they know nothing. Youve done it with me a number of times in NEC related threads and in at least 2 cases straight off the top of my head you were just plainly and simply wrong.
In this case i didnt say youre wrong, i said ive seen damage done with your method when someone doesnt do it right, and i wasnt the only one either. Big difference.
Quality gear got stuff all to do with it, certainly no replacement for experience. You even quoted me saying i did a whole set worth of caps with zero damage and the only quality tool i used was the GOOT solder sucker.
PS, i dont do deals, if i see you post something i know to be wrong, ill call you on it without hessitation.
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Based on location and size I will plan my desoldering method based on everyone's input. Everybody who posted here so far has something positive to add to my future success in keeping this PG running. Thank you.
Anyway.....back to the task at hand. Here is the list of caps I am planning on purchasing. There are a few values that digikey does not have. I think I have every cap in the PJ covered. If not I'll order the caps I missed as needed. Attached is a list with links to the digikey site. The cost is going to be about $130 plus the shipping. I found Panasonic FC sereis where they were available. Feedback is surely welcome.
Thanks,
John
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Have you listed those in a per board format or just doing for a full set of boards?
Just that its hard for me to see it all on this tiny screen here ( not cause of its layout, looks great ), not near my computer at the moment.
There is a few bi-polar caps on the video output board, 2 of those were leaking on mine.
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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This is just the full set. The service manual didn't break down the caps per board. I'm going to have to look at the video output board and the service manual to find the bipolars.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Yeah its not many, but they are there
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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The replacement caps arrived yesterday. I have begun the project starting with the deflection board. I managed to swap out about half so far.
John
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Zolzar wrote: | The replacement caps arrived yesterday. I have begun the project starting with the deflection board. I managed to swap out about half so far.
John |
Keep plugging away!!! I usually change about 10 caps then test the board. You dont want to do a whole
board and then find out it doesnt work, then go back and try to find the bad work you did. Not fun!!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I will surely take your advice and test as I go along. So far I have found two leaky caps. I have about 30 left on the deflection board. I hoping once this board is done the 1080i shaking issue is cleared up. That would be a huge relief.
John
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | Not sure where I found it (it was long ago) but capacitor replacement list for PG plain powersupply is already exsiting, so I repost it, I hope the original author don't mind it. It wasn't me who did this. |
Though I know im late to the party, I don't mind you using the list at all. I am glad to see its getting used! (I thought the layout of the text and wording sounded rather familiar  )
That list was a pita, so yes, glad its getting used 
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Zolzar wrote: | | Wow! You guys are unreal! What's nice about this list is it is specific to the board. The service manual isn't quite as friendly. It does show the location but provides no further reference without going back to the prints. |
Glad the list was of use to you The PG Projectors are nice machines, I have had the entire 9 series, but not a 10. If the 10 does better than the 9PG Xtra that I had, then you are in for a treat. Plus I think the NEC PJs have the best color out there for displays. Period.
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When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy112 wrote: | | Plus I think the NEC PJs have the best color out there for displays. Period. |
For sure. Provided they havent been molested
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Good news! I'm very excited about the projector now as I was having some doubts with the 1080i shaking. It was a busy day yesterday but I did have a few minutes to pop the partially recapped deflection board back in the pj for testing and IT WORKS!!!!! The shaking is gone! I threw up the resolution test patterns and the picture is nice and sharp on the tube face. Now back to the iron......
John
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy112 wrote: | | Zolzar wrote: | | Wow! You guys are unreal! What's nice about this list is it is specific to the board. The service manual isn't quite as friendly. It does show the location but provides no further reference without going back to the prints. |
Glad the list was of use to you The PG Projectors are nice machines, I have had the entire 9 series, but not a 10. If the 10 does better than the 9PG Xtra that I had, then you are in for a treat. Plus I think the NEC PJs have the best color out there for displays. Period. |
But they're difficult machines for a newb to cut their teeth on. After considering a XG135 I decided to go with a Barco as my first CRT, a BG808S. It was a breeze to dial in and with the HD144 lenses the colorimetry was fixed and gave me some extra sharpness too.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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The NEC is very easy to set up. Especially the later ones. Ive never set up a Barco though.
From the PG PLUS they all have HD144 or HD145 lenses.
If you follow the procedures on the tech section of this site you cant go wrong. If you run each menu up and down its very obvious what they all do.
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