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laglute
Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: NEC 9 PG XTRA |
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Hello
I've an opportunity for a NEC9 PG XTRA, but i'm little afraid with failures of the convergence and focus output board, deflection board, too.
Do these problems occur often ? Can it be repaired ? Actual owner can't do a demo because the NEC's been unmounted from ceiling, so i can't see this default.
I had a BG801S 15 years ago and Sony 1031 for 12 years : what can you tell me about color, sharpness, brightness of the NEC 9 vs these two CRTs ?
What this CRT is capable for HD and with which items to do so ? HDFury, PC, scalers ?
Thanks for your answers !
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Focus and convergence failures are a bit over talked, If the mechanical alignment is done carefully then the electronics are not overstressed, so those boards seem to live forever. If the mechanical setup is rough then the electronics are more prone to fail, but this is not unique to NECs.
The deflection board is a different story, if the horizontal frequency is high (say more than 70kHz) they die frequently, adding fans to deflcetion boards heat sink will help a lot.
But most of these problems will generate an error code, so don't buy it without try out, all threee tube must come alive.
Also make sure the tubes are in good condition, these days it is really hard to find a PG xtra with good tubes, and spare tubes are hard to find, because the green will fit in the XG.
The PG xtra is much better than a barco 801, much-much sharper thanks to the electro magnetic focus and HD145 lenses, and one of the best colors amongst CRTs.
PG xtras are good for 720P, 1080i-96Hz, I find the 1600x900-72Hz one of the best solution, or if you are not too picky you may like 1080p too.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: NEC 9 PG XTRA |
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| gjaky wrote: | | The deflection board is a different story, if the horizontal frequency is high (say more than 70kHz) they die frequently, adding fans to deflcetion boards heat sink will help a lot. |
I just replaced the big power caps on this board last weekend and was a little surprised to see some of them leaking oil out of the bottom after only 2900 hours (9PGX). They weren't cheap caps but high temp. Rybycon's, so either the cooling here is not great or they're pushing the board pretty hard.
The caps that were leaking are the 22,000 uf towards the front and the small 10uf 400V next to the big pair of 33uf 400V. That pair was starting to swell on top and the factory wire-bundle plastic clamp left a big dent on top of one as well.
I'll try and post some pics this weekend
| laglute wrote: | What this CRT is capable for HD and with which items to do so ? HDFury, PC, scalers ?
Thanks for your answers ! |
helped a friend set-up a 6PGX with Moome external MUX HD and it throws a fabulous 720P pic from blue ray.
the 9PGX would blow away your Barco 801 ES focus
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:29 am Post subject: |
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The leaking capacitors has little or nothing at all to do with the hours of use. They will still leak with zero hours use if they are from the same time as those Rubycons and Nichicons were common leakers.
I just replaced 11 capacitors in a new old stock never opened never used Sega Game Gear, all were leaking. Genuine zero hours.
The convergence and focus boards have very little on them, failure isnt common that ive ever heard, and they are easily repaired. I dont see any sense in pushing the projector too hard, 1920x1080i at 60 or 72Hz is more than enough.
I use 1280x720p at 72Hz for 3D on my XG, and 1920x1080i at 60Hz for normal movies. Same on my 9PG in my bedroom, but no 3D so all 1920x1080i 60Hz. Smooth and sharp, no flicker.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | The leaking capacitors has little or nothing at all to do with the hours of use. They will still leak with zero hours use if they are from the same time as those Rubycons and Nichicons were common leakers.. |
Hmmm, not sure about that. The marquee used Rubycon's exclusively, from the same time period mid to late 90's on up and I have seen very few leak out the bottom. Out of thousands of caps only maybe 2 dozen and all from 2 or 3 machines.
I suspect there's something else going on with that NEC PG deflection board.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | The leaking capacitors has little or nothing at all to do with the hours of use. They will still leak with zero hours use if they are from the same time as those Rubycons and Nichicons were common leakers.. |
Hmmm, not sure about that. The marquee used Rubycon's extensively, from the same time period mid to late 90's on up and I have seen very few leak out the bottom. Out of thousands of caps only maybe 2 dozen and all from 2 or 3 machines.
I suspect there's something else going on with that NEC PG deflection board. |
No,no,no I have just met a guy who has two PG9000s, one has 700hrs in it, the other one has 400hrs in it. the 700 hrs old unit was built half a year earlier than the other, and 95% of the capacitors on the video out board just started to leak. Normally there were no sign of leak, but after pulling some random caps out it turned out thet they all were wet underside, so I am just in time, for saving the board, the younger board is in somewhat better condition, but obviously not that 300hrs caused the caps to leak.
In my PG xtra all caps are very similar to PG plain's, and I didn't find any leakers while recapping them on some of my boards, and it has 4000hrs in it, though it's 2 years younger.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | The leaking capacitors has little or nothing at all to do with the hours of use. They will still leak with zero hours use if they are from the same time as those Rubycons and Nichicons were common leakers.. |
Hmmm, not sure about that. The marquee used Rubycon's exclusively, from the same time period mid to late 90's on up and I have seen very few leak out the bottom. Out of thousands of caps only maybe 2 dozen and all from 2 or 3 machines.
I suspect there's something else going on with that NEC PG deflection board. |
Wrong, Case is correct.....
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laglute
Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everybody.
Gjaky, concerning any error code, may it appear on screen only when a DVD/BR player is plugged or without it ?
Concerning colors, i had a demo last week with a Barco Ciné7, but i was a little bit disapointed. For instance, in CARS ( pixar ) the red colour of Flash Mac Queen was a good red, but not a Red Ferrari. With my Sony 1031, it's better. Picture seems "flat" too, with no deepth : notice DVD player was a Sony DVP7700 with Cinematrix board. Can Cinematrix board "flat" picture ?
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is a two digit 7-segment LED display on the back of every NEC that is the error code display, '00' means everything is right, if there is a major problem present it will show up a code like 'E0' or 'FC', and the projector shuts down.
Here you can look up the legal error codes, if you are interested. As always there is a possibility for having a certain issue without generating an error code, but the possibility for this is not higher than with any other branded pj.
It is interesting what are you saying about colors... cine7 has exactly the same lenses as PG xtra if I am correct, maybe the barco wasn't calibrated properly. I had the chance to compare tinted HD-6 (from PG plain) with HD145s on my PG xtra and I can say that the HD-6's red tint is slightly darker than the HD145's therfore produces 'deeper' red, which is probably closer to ferrari red, but sometimes I find it unnatural, with HD145 the color was just perfect!
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | The leaking capacitors has little or nothing at all to do with the hours of use. They will still leak with zero hours use if they are from the same time as those Rubycons and Nichicons were common leakers.. |
Hmmm, not sure about that. The marquee used Rubycon's exclusively, from the same time period mid to late 90's on up and I have seen very few leak out the bottom. Out of thousands of caps only maybe 2 dozen and all from 2 or 3 machines.
I suspect there's something else going on with that NEC PG deflection board. |
Wrong, Case is correct..... |
Cheers mate 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Are the Cine 7 colour filtered though?
Either way, a 9PG XTRA will blow a Cine 7 away with ease. P16 tubes, HD-145 colour filtered lenses, EM focus with multiple adjustment zones, adjustable electronic astig correction, and the best convergence there is, espesially when fitted with the point board.
Itll be sharp as f### compared to either of those others you mensioned. Its a fine choice
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | In my PG xtra all caps are very similar to PG plain's, and I didn't find any leakers while recapping them on some of my boards, and it has 4000hrs in it, though it's 2 years younger. |
so what?
the 9PGx I have here was leaking at 2800 hours.
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laglute
Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Are the Cine 7 colour filtered though?
Either way, a 9PG XTRA will blow a Cine 7 away with ease. P16 tubes, HD-145 colour filtered lenses, EM focus with multiple adjustment zones, adjustable electronic astig correction, and the best convergence there is, espesially when fitted with the point board.
Itll be sharp as f### compared to either of those others you mensioned. Its a fine choice |
Yes, colour filtered. But as already said, i though Cinematrix board could have an influence on final picture, especially with NTSC signal : poor colored picture, display jerked, just like when you're looking at a NTSC TV display. Maybe owners did not set Cinematrix's frequency switcher board properly. Maybe i'm wrong too about these switchers...
Starship troopers's fleshtones were almost grey. Jurrasic Park's jeeps were poor in red and same with forest's green.
PAL signal was good, but slightly lower than my Sony 1031 especially for colors. And i had "flat" picture feeling everytime...
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laglute
Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | There is a two digit 7-segment LED display on the back of every NEC that is the error code display, '00' means everything is right, if there is a major problem present it will show up a code like 'E0' or 'FC', and the projector shuts down.
Here you can look up the legal error codes, if you are interested. As always there is a possibility for having a certain issue without generating an error code, but the possibility for this is not higher than with any other branded pj.
It is interesting what are you saying about colors... cine7 has exactly the same lenses as PG xtra if I am correct, maybe the barco wasn't calibrated properly. I had the chance to compare tinted HD-6 (from PG plain) with HD145s on my PG xtra and I can say that the HD-6's red tint is slightly darker than the HD145's therfore produces 'deeper' red, which is probably closer to ferrari red, but sometimes I find it unnatural, with HD145 the color was just perfect! |
Saw PG9 today, but as already said, screen demo wasn't possible. However, i looked at PJ's tubes turned off then on : no wear at all. Dust, but usual. "00" on LED display.
What is better between nowaday DVD/BR player upscaling board and Cinematrix board, i mean resolution, color ? I know it's a difficult question, depending involved items...
Can anyone post a picture of ceiling bracket because when i turned PJ upside down, i saw no screwholes to hang PJ on ceiling ( there's no ceiling bracket ) ? Only 4 square's screws in the PJ's first third part, on each side. Four adjustment feets in each corner, too.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | In my PG xtra all caps are very similar to PG plain's, and I didn't find any leakers while recapping them on some of my boards, and it has 4000hrs in it, though it's 2 years younger. |
so what?
the 9PGx I have here was leaking at 2800 hours. |
Ya just dont get it do ya. Its simply not getting through... Its not the hours. ITS NOT THE F###EN HOURS!!! Its the capacitors failing due quite likely to materials used premature deterioration.
THEY WILL LEAK WITH ZERO HOURS USE. ZERO HOURS MEANS ZERO BOARD RELATED ISSUES CAUSED THE LEAKS.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| laglute wrote: | Saw PG9 today, but as already said, screen demo wasn't possible. However, i looked at PJ's tubes turned off then on : no wear at all. Dust, but usual. "00" on LED display.
What is better between nowaday DVD/BR player upscaling board and Cinematrix board, i mean resolution, color ? I know it's a difficult question, depending involved items... |
it's really not a difficult question. the Sony DVD player is 12 years old, no matter how top of the line i might have been back then it cannot compare to even the cheapest BD player out there right now. The quality of the chips and DA video converters inside has improved by leaps and bounds. I promise you that there is nothing flat or color impaired to any 8 inch electromagnetic focus CRT projector fed with a good signal from a current DVD or BD disc.
| laglute wrote: | | Can anyone post a picture of ceiling bracket because when i turned PJ upside down, i saw no screw-holes to hang PJ on ceiling ( there's no ceiling bracket ) ? Only 4 square's screws in the PJ's first third part, on each side. Four adjustment feets in each corner, too. |
the 4 corner feet should never be used to hang a PJ. The 4 holes close together and towards the front are for the bracket, that where the center of g gravity is.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | THEY WILL LEAK WITH ZERO HOURS USE. ZERO HOURS MEANS ZERO BOARD RELATED ISSUES CAUSED THE LEAKS.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? |
what's so hard ot understand is your rambling nonsense posts. Look , *******, if your trying to make a point then be specific. What time period in years did Rubycon manufacture caps that you think are defective. Some rambling, random examples of sh*t you've taken apart doesn't mean anything. Look at this
| Quote: | | No,no,no I have just met a guy who has two PG9000s, one has 700hrs in it, the other one has 400hrs in it. the 700 hrs old unit was built half a year earlier than the other, and 95% of the capacitors on the video out board just started to leak. Normally there were no sign of leak, but after pulling some random caps out it turned out thet they all were wet underside, so I am just in time, for saving the board, the younger board is in somewhat better condition, but obviously not that 300hrs caused the caps to leak. |
PG9000 June of 1992 to June of 1994
| Quote: | | In my PG xtra all caps are very similar to PG plain's, and I didn't find any leakers while recapping them on some of my boards, and it has 4000hrs in it, though it's 2 years younger. |
No, the PGX is newer. 9PGX Production date of 1996, 6PGX production dates of 1995 thru 1998
http://www.curtpalme.com/NECPG_Models.shtm
So based on the above posts your saying the 92 to 94 Rubycon caps were defective and problems were solved by 1996?
Actually, I don't care. I'm not interested in your dumb-ass opinions.There was nothing wrong with the 1995 on up Rubycon's because I've seen Thousands of them. Since they're leaking on the 1996 9PGX I took apart it suggests that board is running very hot. That you took apart 2 or 3 machines and a Saga console makes your opinion mean very little.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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>chuckle, chuckle<
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dragan, still coming in here trying to claim how insuperior NEC machines are i see... How much heat builds up in a brand new unused board?
Think about that, then once youve done a couple cobwebs, you might understand why the capacitors leak. Its not just Rubycons, its not just Nichicons, and it sure as sh## isnt limited to the years you stated, or the items youve opened up.
PS... Are you quoting GJaky and having a shot at me?
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CxTurbo
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 425
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Reading this sh*t is like watching a retard eat soup with a fork........Pointless!
No offense to the mentally handicaped or learning disabled intended.
Oh, and what Mac said!
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