CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Nashou66]

Ok I posted this over at the lumagen site. they said they'd look into it but i wanted to run it by the guys here especially Craig.

Repost or my confusing Lumagen thread.

http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=19586&rid=651&S=b653e40b3501b04bc7a37144491ba20a#msg_19586

I have a unique set up. I am running a CRT blend using two XS's and 2 Tv-One C2-2250 Blend processors and a Moome MUX HD after the BD player for HDCP stripping work. Before the 3D updates everything was working fine. I tried once last year to update to a post 3D update but lost the image and just went back to pre 3D software. So now I want to use the 125 point CMS and needed to go to a newer firmware. well the same thing. So I did some investigating and tried to use a LD player which has no HDCP. On that i had the same thing. Now when i loose image i also loose the Lumagens output so no OSD. I have to blindly navigate to the output menu and select another res. Also i should add that I ran the second output of the Lumagen to the second input on my Marquee moome HDMI card to bypass the C2 2250 and get the 24hz image although it will not sync for obvious reasons.

So now I can see all output resolutions out of my lumagen into the Tv-One then out to the Marquee CRT projector But as soon as I select 1080p@24
the screen goes black telling me that the lumagen has sent an HDCP signal to the TV-One to shut off its output. If the TV-one just looses the signal it goes to a Blue output screen not Black. So it seams there is always an HDCP signal on the 1080p@24 hz telling my Tv_one C2 2250 to turn off its output.

However the BD player is sending its signal as confirmed from the out of sync 24hz signal on the PJ's input 2 that by passed the Tv-One.

I also have a Moome MUX HD( hdcp stripper) right after my BD player.

And the LD player goes directly into the XS's and I have the BD player and Moome disconnected and shut off.

I have also sent Jim emails about this.

So it seams for some reason the TV-One and radiance are not playing nice together when the Lumagen is outputting 1080p24hz, all other output resolutions allow the Tv-one to work fine.

thanks Athanasios

[CIR Engineering]

So you are only losing the picture when running 1080p 24Hz. And you think this is because the Radiance is enabling (turning on) HDCP?

I had a strange issue with a RadianceXE and JVC RS-20 the other day. I had done the install back in 2009 when the XE was still beta and I hadn't been back since. The client called me out to do a tune up.

I updated the XE FW and as soon as I did so, the projector totally lost picture. I connected the output of the XE to my QD780 LCD screen and got just a black screen with no image. I could not get Radiance menus or anything, but it was seeing a black 1080p 60Hz screen. If I went back to an older FW (I think late 2009 or early 2010) the picture came back.

Jim is out of the country now on vacation so I didn't want to bother him, but I talked to Pat and Randy. Neither of them could figure out the issue. I wound up leaving an older FW on the XE and I still don't know what the deal was or is.

Output one goes to an Anthem preamp and output two goes to a Geffen fiber optic HDMI and than to the projector. I tried a factory reset and even an advanced reset to wipe everything out. I could not get a picture with any newer FW versions.

May not be related, but maybe it is. I really don't know Tom

craigr

[CIR Engineering]

You may want to try incrementally updating the FW on your units until you find exactly which version starts the trouble for you. This would make it much easier and more likely for Pat to figure out what is going on with your setup.

However, I am not sure you will get much or any benefit from the 125 point CMS with CRT even with a blend. The chromacity of both projectors should be nearly identical since they both use the same phosphors and the same CElements.

craigr

[Nashou66]

Yeah that is the issue I have. After the 3d updates no firmware works But what is odd is that it shuts down even the LD player output? Strange indeed.

I did send Jim a few email, I did not know he is out of the country

here is the TV-Ones HDCP page info

HDCP is a copyright protection system (High bandwidth Digital Copy Protection). Therefore its primary aim is to prevent protected material (usually High Definition video) from being copied.

It does this by encrypting the video signal between the source (e.g. DVD player) and sink (e.g. display). To do this, each source and sink must be HDCP compatible and negotiate with each other to create a secure link. They do this by exchanging 'keys' and working out a secret encryption 'password'.

Thus units that support HDCP in the CORIO range (Which CORIO products support HDCP?) are required (by the HDCP license) to ensure that encrypted data from a source stays encrypted on its outputs.

This requirement then forces an HDCP-compliant unit to shut-down any non-encrypted outputs such as analog RGB, SDI or composite video.

This is not a fault with the CORIO unit, but a requirement by the HDCP license granted to TV One - and thus all HDCP compliant units should work in the same way.

The HDCP implementation is version 1.2, with full repeater support of up to 10 down-stream devices.


Summary: a HDCP-encrypted DVI/HDMI source entering a unit *must* leave by a HDCP-encrypted DVI/HDMI output. No other outputs are allowed to work under the terms of the HDCP license.


Not sure what version of HDCP Lumagen uses

Nashou

[CIR Engineering]

I know that the Radiance with newer FW versions is tighter with respect to HDCP. I also know that the newer Radiance FW versions turn HDCP on for the output if the display reports that it is HDCP compliant. With newer FW versions, the Radiance will turn HDCP on even if the source is not sending an HDCP flag, as long as the display reports that it accepts HDCP. However, if the display does not support HDCP than the Lumagen will not turn on the HDCP flag if the source does not call for it. So if your source and display are both not HDCP than you will not get HDCP on the Radiance output, but any other combination will pretty much make the Radiance turn on HDCP.

This was done to speed up resync times between source and display so that when a new hand shake is initiated the display comes back up more quickly.

I wonder if the TV1 is reporting HDCP support to the Radiance and then the Radiance could be turning on HDCP again even after the HDCP is stripped. But this does not explain why only at 24Hz!

I am heading out to CA for several days so I won't be around much longer for help on this.

craigr

[CxTurbo]

After the big CMS update firmware I have been getting HDCP errors when my HTPC is the source selected. Here is the odd part, I have no error as long as Mediaportal is not running during the initial sync. After the mini syncs on just the desktop I can run whatever without issue. :\

The mini reboots itself and then trys to sync again. Only to reboot itself again.

Is that what your XS's do Nash? If so try to revert back to the firware before the 125 point cms update.

[Nashou66]

[Nashou66]

Yep they tun on HDCP if the radiance,s output sees the source can handle HDCP.

[CxTurbo]

Saw that too. I would still like to know what Mediaportal is doing that triggers this response from the Radiance. Alas I just reverted back to an older firmware and will test more when I have time. I doubt I will ever find that out and am positive I bought the HDCP version of the graphics card. I'll have to dig into that too just in case the Mediaportal thing was a fluke.

If you had a universal remote that does macros Nash you could also program a one button solution yourself if need be. Mine is great for stuff like that. I even have delays programmed in when sources are switched to give them time to boot 8)

[Boilermaker]

Damn - Doesn't HDCP suck!!!
My setup is pretty similar to yours except I use a DVDO VP50pro. This is exactly why years ago I went with an HD-SDI mod for my Oppo.

I agree with you that you really need the extra points for grayscale that your new firmware provides On your blend. At the bottom end is where you can get identical results that have been a bugger in the blend zone.

If you are unable to get it settled, I have a spare Panny BD player with Hd-SDI mod that I don't need that you can have. I think there are several HD-SDI to HDMI converters available. The Panny is not an Oppo, but at least it will get you up until Lumagen can hopefully add an on/off toggle for you.


Bob

[Nashou66]

[Boilermaker]

Awhile back I had a similar problem if you remember.
If I put the two VideoEq's after the TVOne's followed by a pair of Mux's feeding the projectors, I would get the blue screen even if the original source was analog.
I changed the configuration to having the VideoEq's before the TVOne's and it worked OK, so I have not changed it since.

This HDCP sh*t ALWAYS defaults to shutdown when it gets confused. The consumer is the one who gets screwed!


Bob

[Nashou66]

calling you now.

[Nashou66]

So I am waiting to see what Lumagen will do for me. maybe add a HDCp on off toggle. But in the mean time moome returned an e-mail i sent about a few things.

I do plan on getting his new MUX HD or as it is now called the Video Formatter VF01.
So we'll see how that works.
Also I suggested for me to send the TV-One to him to figure out why his VIM-HD will not allow the Tv-one to work with HDCP.
He said it would help so I await word from him on that.

I also suggested to Tv-One to send them a Vim HD HDMI card so they can test it on their end. i told them they'd have to make a hook up jig for it to work, that is set up a power source and then take the RGBHV feeds from the connector and to a monitor. it should work.

So this seams like it will never end, but it be cool if all of these issues can be resolved by at least one of these companies.

I put my money on Moome and then lumagen and a big hopeful prayer to Tv-one after.

Athanasios

[CxTurbo]

Hope this gets sorted out for you Nash. I am beginning to understand how frustrating this must be for you.


I have spent the last four hours trying different firmwares to no avail. My EXT v2 and the Mini are not getting along at all. Does this HDCP junk do on the fly blacklisting of devices? I wonder if the HDCP downgrades with the firmware in the mini or i that stays as is. I never should have updated the firmware as everything was working great prior to that. My AVR and HTPC work fine with the Moome alone but as soon as I connect the Mini back in the chain it shuts off and reboots. Then my AVR comes up with an HDCP error. So pissed right now as I wanted to watch a movie bad and relax. Instead I get this crap again.

Funny part was it was working on and off the last two days and would sync fine as long as I was on the desktop of the HTPC without Mediaportal running. Wont work at all now and I can't even watch my BD or Cable. I might try an analogue source tomorrow but want to smash stuff at the moment....... LOL

[Nashou66]

In the mini try to set EDID to hotplug so its always sending the HDCP signal.

But if not go back to the last update before they started the 3D crap.

Nashou

[CxTurbo]

So set hot plug to always on.

Should I leave the EDID on default or should I set it to pass back output 1?

I will try the first firmware update on the site tomorrow and see where that gets me.

Really is frustrating as hell when all you want to do is chill and watch a flick. Regardless I would be even more pissed if I had visitors over that wanted to join me. I usually have patience for stuff like this too.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Nashou66]

I'm not sure what pass back output 1 and 2 means? maybe Craig knows.

Nashou

[CxTurbo]

Well, whatever it does it has not changed anything in my situation. I have also sent off an email to Lumagen to see what is up. I have tried a good assortment of early firmwares and nothing has changed yet. I'll keep plugging away at it though.

I does not make sense that firmware that did work, now does not. Now it occurs as video is passed to the mini from any source. It almost looks like the HDCP portion of the firmware is not being downgraded and my FullHD-EXT V2 has been black listed. I can feed HDMI out from my AVR to the EXT and get it to handshake. The devices will hand shake with the EXT.

I suppose the next step would be to see if in fact it is the EXT and not my AVR causing issue with the Mini now 8(


James

[CIR Engineering]

I have had no issues with HDCP when using Lumagen and Moome products together. I use this combination on most CRT's I work on these days which is literally more than 300 units.

I did however work with an NVIDIA HTPC and Moome Sony v4 IFB yesterday, and had problems there. In the NVIDIA control panel HDCP was reported as "supported by the display." However, whenever we started a BD the playback would stop and report HDCP noncompliance. I sent Moome an email, but he says that he hasn't seen this before. We installed AnyDVD and moved on. There was no Lumagen on that site.

I think you are having a hardware problem James. I don't think this has to do with the Lumagen FW, but I could be wrong on this. When I had issues the other day with the XE and JVC Randy suggested that I backdate the Lumagen FW because it is less stringent on HDCP enforcement.

You have tried another HDMI cable right?

Good luck!

craigr