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friedwart
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Earth, Europe, Germany @ N 51°43'10.73'' E 14°39'05.52''
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Gave each tube at least an hour and no issues. Running all three tubes again for SNF and no problems in the first 30-45 minutes...maybe it's fixed, but I don't trust it. I hate intermittent problems! |
When my marquee had that issues, I could watch several movies without any problem and the next movie was unwatchable, the picture disappeared at minute intervals.
So long
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| friedwart wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Gave each tube at least an hour and no issues. Running all three tubes again for SNF and no problems in the first 30-45 minutes...maybe it's fixed, but I don't trust it. I hate intermittent problems! |
When my marquee had that issues, I could watch several movies without any problem and the next movie was unwatchable, the picture disappeared at minute intervals.
So long |
If the problem pops up again, I will definitely consider dropping the tubes to reseat the mobo. I really appreciate your suggestion!
Sunday night football worked perfectly, let's see about tonight.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Sunday night football worked perfectly, let's see about tonight. |
I've pulled the mobo with the tubes in. IT's held down by 6 phillips screrws, and simply pivoting the tubes left/right allows you to get to all the screws.
you will need to unplug the 3 umbilical's going to the neck-boards under each tube, clean each of those connections.
Then P14 and P 15 under the blue tube, 15 is really large and a bitch but it has to come off. Finally, the small 2-prong fan connector.
You can slide the Mobo straight back and out at a small angle to clear the rear heat sink lip
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Sunday night football worked perfectly, let's see about tonight. |
I've pulled the mobo with the tubes in. IT's held down by 6 phillips screrws, and simply pivoting the tubes left/right allows you to get to all the screws.
you will need to unplug the 3 umbilical's going to the neck-boards under each tube, clean each of those connections.
Then P14 and P 15 under the blue tube, 15 is really large and a bitch but it has to come off. Finally, the small 2-prong fan connector.
You can slide the Mobo straight back and out at a small angle to clear the rear heat sink lip |
Thanks Dragan. I did actually decide to go that route; I didn't take out the mobo, but I took out the HDM and FCM to get at it. I reseated all connections on the mobo including P14 and 15, and all the VNB umbilicals. I unscrewed the mobo and reseated it half a dozen times to be sure and put it all back together...
no joy.
I'm noticing though now it happens more when the projector is cold. Happened once within the first 5 minutes of operation, then again maybe within the first 30 minutes of operation, then it was perfect for another 3+ hours. Any ideas?
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Hello
I would still suspect a tube issue; or possibly the spare hvps you tried has the same problem as the first one.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
I would still suspect a tube issue; or possibly the spare hvps you tried has the same problem as the first one.
. |
Thanks Tim, truly. Does the kind of arc you're talking about happen at the gun or somewhere else - should I take off the top plastic covers to the tubes to see if any arcing is visible?
Going down another path, assuming the tubes are fine - if both HVPS were weak and on their way out, maybe that's why it works with one tube at a time? I think I'll disconnect all but one tube tonight and fire it up cold to see what happens. This problem definitely seems worse when cold.
I know my way around a soldering station, though I'm no EE whiz. Maybe I'll open up both HVPS to see what I can see in the non-potted section. Perhaps a domed cap or cracked joint will jump out at me.
Perhaps I just need to warm up the projector an hour or two before movies 
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
You could have a serious arc inside a tube or the hvps potted section and never hear it.
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
this has often helped me when trying to locate thermal faults.
Regards,
barclay66
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Unless I missed it, I would disconnect 1 neck board at a time. Completely disconnect it, don't just pull it from the tube. See if you can find two tubes that run forever. if so, you've found the bad neck board on the third tube.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Hi,
this has often helped me when trying to locate thermal faults.
Regards,
barclay66 |
Thanks! Why didn't I think of that? I'll pick up a can and go to town freezing my Marquee 
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Unless I missed it, I would disconnect 1 neck board at a time. Completely disconnect it, don't just pull it from the tube. See if you can find two tubes that run forever. if so, you've found the bad neck board on the third tube. |
Hey Curt, thanks for jumping in! I have three spare neckboards, and I swapped the green VNB already on suspicion. I could swap the other two easily and see if that makes any change. If the problem still occurs, I'll do as you suggest in case my spares are bad.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | barclay66 wrote: | Hi,
this has often helped me when trying to locate thermal faults. <Picture of Freeze75 spray>
Regards,
barclay66 |
Thanks! Why didn't I think of that? I'll pick up a can and go to town freezing my Marquee |
Ben,
When using this kind of spray please bear in mind that too much of it on one single part may cause new problems due to condensed water and/or ice. I usually only give each part one or two "shots". If You want to apply it on a neck board please make sure You don't spray on the tube's glass. The thermal shock could lead to cracking/implosion...
Regards,
barclay66
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Sound advice barclay66 - I wasn't really going to deep-freeze my machine, but excellent point about the tube glass which I hadn't thought of.
So, I changed out the other two VIMs and now I'm running all three of my spares. The issue did not happen on startup, nor for about 15 minutes - but then as I was playing with (raising) my G2 levels as I had them set too low, it occurred once. I ran the set for another half hour or so and it didn't happen again.
I should mention that although my tubes have mint phosphor, they must have some standby hours as I'm running G2s between 68-72 and furthermore I'm running at contrast 65 because I love the brightness. I was looking at the TSBs as I need to do the line fix and the dot fix, and I couldn't help but to notice these two TSBs:
The Projected Image May Disappear on Marquee Projectors Set to High Contrast Levels Depending on the Image Content: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ElectrohomeMarqueeTechnicalBulletin_TBC94-11.doc
Prevent HV Shutdown During Low Beam Current, Eliminate Ringing: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ElectrohomeMarqueeTechnicalBulletin_VDCDS_TFB_003.pdf
I realize the first TSB doesn't technically apply to my 9500, but I wonder if something is triggering the protection circuitry given I'm running a high-ish contrast. I'm not quite sure if the second applies to my projector, but I thought I'd mention it.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Quick update before bed:
Though it's listed for 8000 and 9000 series PJs, I ran through the VNB current-limiter troubleshooting routine laid out here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ElectrohomeMarqueeTechnicalBulletin_TBC94-3.doc
No dice - with contrast at 100, switching between each color and then all three, I couldn't make the PJ shut off.
Going on Curt and Nash's suggestion, I disconnected the blue tube HV and VNB and ran with the green and red tubes only. To avoid watching the yellow picture I played piano, and sure enough after about 20 minutes it cut off and back on again. I stopped to hook up the blue again and disconnect the green in the same manner. It ran completely fine for about 45 minutes and that's all the time I had - I'll resume testing it tomorrow or when I can.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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After being out of town this weekend, I got a chance to get back to the projector. Monday night I played xbox and it was terrible, cutting out intermittently and sometimes very often, and at one point the HV refused to come back up until I power cycled the projector. Let me tell you how badly that screws with online multiplayer!
Back to troubleshooting: as mentioned previously, while testing disconnecting the neckboards I encountered the problem running G+R, but B+R had been fine, so I ran B+G for awhile. After 20-30 minutes, the HV dropped and came back up, so I switched back to B+R, which ran flawlessly for the half hour of time I had left. It's important to note that this time I used the Lumagen to put up a full field, 30 IRE solid pattern - therefore, there was no change in video content, and with a low-IRE pattern it essentially rules out all beam-current limiter failures that could cause HV shutdown such as the tech bulletins for the VNB and VIM.
At this point, since I've already swapped the green VNB for a spare, I'm suspecting the green tube (Tim: your cue for a "I told you so" ). I'm willing to swap it for my old, somewhat bad focusing Thomas tube, and if that works I may or may not spend the effort to pot a fresh green I bought from Andres in Florida a few years back. I think that is also a Thomas tube but Nash reports good results, I think, so hopefully better than the ones I got from CJ.
Swapping the green tube would also remedy my second issue - I already have huge blobs of "stuff" growing and floating around in the green tube coolant. They are extremely visible on screen until they float to the top, due to heating of the fluid I guess, after about an hour of operation. I don't understand why this is happening - I have new Apple rubber bellows thanks to Nash, which I washed and dried prior to installation, and I made efforts to silicone over any scratches in the aluminum's coating. I filled everything with fresh Techspray coolant, I think back in the beginning of July - so this is happening really fast. I have stuff growing in the blue tube also, but not nearly as bad. The red tube is clear so far.
Edit: Note that I did all three tubes at once, with the same bellows and the same coolant.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | You have hte correct VNB's fort he thomas tubes right Ben?
Athanasios |
Yes - I ran CJ's thomas tubes for years, and as far as I know I was the first to mod the Marquee neckboard for the 09MEX3 pinout. I'm sorry I never followed up with pictures on the other thread...perhaps I will right that wrong after four and a half years
For now I'll test run with my assembled CJ-sourced thomas tube and modded neckboard, but as I mentioned the focus was always substandard. If it works, and I decide it's worth the effort, I have a minty set from Antoine that hopefully focus better. What has been your experience with those tubes? I'm assuming they're the same 09MEX3 pinout?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Very interesting. I swapped the green tube for my Thomas tube, and sure as death and taxes, the problem happened several times in a row after about 45-60 minutes and finally the PJ refused to bring up HV, just like when I was playing xbox Monday. Therefore we can conclude the problem is either happening in multiple tubes, or is not tube related at all.
Please note I have NOT switched the CLM as I don't have a working spare. Could that be the culprit? Or should I try a third HVPS?
Nash - I forgot just how horribly the CJ-sourced Thomas tubes focused. Sadly enough I think the beam spot is on par, or maybe a little better than, a 7" ES tube. Any 8" EM tube would kill it performance wise. Ergo I'm glad it's not my green tube, though now I have to clean it out with CLR and refill.
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