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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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NEC boards are real easy to damage when attempting to replace components. However the seals on these caps are breaking down consistently so changing them is an advantage.
I use a different method for changing them on NEC boards.
If the cap is off the board enough to get small wire cutters under there then cut the caps leads as close to the cap as possible, leaving the 2 wires sticking up off the board. Then take your solder iron and put some solder on these leads. Then take the new cap and cut the leads on it leaving just enough to solder them to the leads on the boards. This way is actually faster and easier then trying to remove the old cap.
If there isn't enough gap under the old cap to get cutters under there then do this. Locate the position of the cap leads and grab the cap at those locations. Now bend the cap over in each direction and rip it off the board. This will leave the internal leads of the cap sticking up off the board. You can trim them if you wish and then apply some solder. Then attach the new cap.
Also make sure you buy your caps from a reputable supplier to avoid knockoffs.
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Might make sense to buy a second Point board and use it for cap replacement and keep my working unit unmodified since it works.
Is there any adjustment needed to a different board, or is it basically plug-and-play?
I'm also OK taking on a project to replace all caps on a complete set of boards, just don't want to screw up a set that is working now. I'm not averse to making an investment of time and money to do this, but don't want to be foolish, either.
Is this a good strategy, or should I leave well enough alone?
BTW, what boards will work in my 10PG?
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yor strategy is as good as bad  Because the runing hours of the unit has only minor (moderate at top) effect on the capacitor failure, the problem is with the rubber plug which seals the capacitor, they are aging by time no matter how they cared. At one point they will let the electrolyt to come out, and it is corrosive for the electronic componets, so if the problem developed you will have hard time to clean and redo the damages. If your tubes are in really good condition I would say it well worth the extra work, even if there is no real problem yet.
NECs can generate a bounch of random problems and most people would say it is because the aging capacitors in the set, but for me it never helped... I never seen a leaking cap on my boards, but I can't ignore it won't happen.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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If it was mine, and I intended on using it for years, this is what I would do because they are very reliable:
1 - Go through Tinman's thread and buy the necessary boards to change it to a + model.
2 - Starting with the + boards, replace every 'lytic cap, one board at a time. Go through the many threads here on cap replacement to advise you on which caps, where to buy them, what voltage rating, etc. Do one board at a time in case you made a mistake.
You should be able to do them all in a couple of days.
3 - Recalibrate everything and you should have many years of enjoyable watching. I had one for several years before I replaced it with a blend and gave it to my daughter.
Bob
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| rtart wrote: | Might make sense to buy a second Point board and use it for cap replacement and keep my working unit unmodified since it works.
Is there any adjustment needed to a different board, or is it basically plug-and-play?
I'm also OK taking on a project to replace all caps on a complete set of boards, just don't want to screw up a set that is working now. I'm not averse to making an investment of time and money to do this, but don't want to be foolish, either.
Is this a good strategy, or should I leave well enough alone?
BTW, what boards will work in my 10PG? |
If your first line means you want to remove capacitors from one board to put on another, that is a dissasterous idea. Replace them with new ones only. If you mean buy more boards and replace the capacitors, then put them in and keep the other boards for spares, thats not a bad idea.
The POINT board is plug and play, although i think it stores its own adjustment data on its self. Not certain of them. If that is the case, you would need to clear all the POINT data if you put in another board.
Any board from a 9PG will also work in the 10PG, and a couple 6PG boards will work as well.
Personally, i think youre crazy NOT to replace the capacitors if they are original or suspected to be original. If they fail, they could f*** something else in the process, and then you really might be screwed. Better off to maintain it as working well than to try fixing it if it fails.
The way Macgyver says to replace the capacitors is very easy and for sure the safest way. There is no question the man knows exactly what he is doing so youd be just as crazy to not act on his advice too 
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Just to clarify, I would not use 'used' components. My idea was to buy replacement boards and rebuild them with new components.
Based on the advice herein, I'll take a look at what is involved in replacing with refurbed (by me) 'plus' boards. Then try to figure out how much money and time is involved, and make a decision.
Probably the best approach is to find a 9PGplus as a donor?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thats not so bad then, i thought you were going to get spare boards and rob them for working caps!!
If you swap to a PLUS, you have to swap all the boards that need swapping, if you go for a 9PG PLUS, make sure it works perfectly first, then make sure it all works after refurbing boards before the transplant.
Im not quite sure what the gain is, im sure there is one to make it worth the effort, but the 10PG focus yokes dont have astig windings, so that blows the biggest improvement of a PLUS over the Plain. I cant remember what the other advantages were. Im sure someone will come along and say all the pros to the swap. Would want to be quite significant to warrant all that work.
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
I'm assuming from your handle you are into Vettes, also?
I have a 92 ragtop and a 72 coupe. Had the 72 since 1981 and bought it from the original owner. He was a friend and I rode home with him in the car when he bought it in late 1971. The 72 is an ongoing project. I've spent years on it off and on replacing everything. It's ready for paint but I'm having trouble finding someone to paint it for less than $6k. I've painted it myself twice, and painted many others. The price quoted seems really excessive for the work and materials cost involved. I guess the thought is that Corvette owners will pay the price.
I have an 8 year old son, and it will be his eventually. I guess I have time....
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Thats not so bad then, i thought you were going to get spare boards and rob them for working caps!!
If you swap to a PLUS, you have to swap all the boards that need swapping, if you go for a 9PG PLUS, make sure it works perfectly first, then make sure it all works after refurbing boards before the transplant.
Im not quite sure what the gain is, im sure there is one to make it worth the effort, but the 10PG focus yokes dont have astig windings, so that blows the biggest improvement of a PLUS over the Plain. I cant remember what the other advantages were. Im sure someone will come along and say all the pros to the swap. Would want to be quite significant to warrant all that work. |
The biggest advantage to swapping in plus boards is the enhanced convergence ability. This makes a proper setup MUCH easier to achieve without point. The plus chassis will get you 99% there by itself and only THEN use point to dial in that last percent.
It IS worth the swap, as there are also a lot of "plus" parts out there to keep it running. Just remember, you must swap both the video and system cages as well as the F-drive with it's cable, I think. The video boards get re-used for the original CRT calibration, the system boards all get swapped over as well as the DEF board
Yes, I retired my Runco/PG10. Hated to do it, but practical and family considerations made it necessary. In all fairness, the Epson 8700UB throws a damn nice image for what it is. And it's quiet. Very quiet... even after doing the fan mod on the PG10.
I figure it's "good enough" until the next generation of displays comes out. Who knows, we could be close to 110" OLED screens
soon.
PG10's are very rare, that's for sure. I'm sure the proud new owner of my Runco will chime in once he has the time to set it up in his new place. You all can then bug HIM, as he got ALL may spare boards.... and there were a lot of them... 
Marc
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tinman. I was hoping you would chime in.
I guess a Service Manaual would be a good idea before jumping off. Do you know of a good place to find one? I'm guessing the 9 series is the one I need?
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, just get a pg9 manual for the PG10, or a 9plus manual if you convert it. (It's not hard to do)
Marc
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've got original User and Install manuals for the PG-6000/PG9000/PG-6000G/PG-9000G, and an Install Manual for the PG-10000.
Do I understand that there are separate Service manuals for the 9PG and the 9PGPlus?
Any idea where I might find copies?
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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So, if I understand correctly, the PG-6000/9000 is the PG6 or PG9;
The PG-6100/9100 is the PGPlus;
And the PG-6200/9200 is the PGXtra?
Looks like the PG-6000G/9000G are 220/240V 50 Hz?
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rtart wrote: | So, if I understand correctly, the PG-6000/9000 is the PG6 or PG9;
The PG-6100/9100 is the PGPlus;
And the PG-6200/9200 is the PGXtra?
Looks like the PG-6000G/9000G are 220/240V 50 Hz? |
Yes.
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rtart
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.....
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:30 am Post subject: |
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As long as you're not this one...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: |
The biggest advantage to swapping in plus boards is the enhanced convergence ability. This makes a proper setup MUCH easier to achieve without point. The plus chassis will get you 99% there by itself and only THEN use point to dial in that last percent. |
Yeah i thought youd say something like that was the reason cause i remember someone else saying something like that. Ive never converged a PLUS, ive looked through the menu on an XTRA, and ive dont the XG.
Can anyone tell me exactly WHAT is better about it?? I know its better, but what makes it better? Cause the only differences i can see between my 9PG and my XG that are actually useful is the line distortion and the 4 separate keystone and pincusion adjustments when in red or blue. I must say it sure does make the job quicker with the 4 separate keystone and pincusion, but i could get the PG lined up with just the standard single point keystone and pincusion as well. It just took alot of f***en around!!
I use RGB POINT on both my 9PG and my XG, cause my screen is a wall and as close as it is, its not perfectly flat.
| rtart wrote: |
Looks like the PG-6000G/9000G are 220/240V 50 Hz? |
They all come in both that and 100-120v 60Hz
Last edited by CasetheCorvetteman on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Cause the only differences i can see between my 9PG and my XG that are actually useful is the line distortion and the 4 separate keystone and pincusion adjustments when in red or blue. |
That's all.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that's all. But it makes a big difference in dialing in the projector using the least possible memory and point correction.
I think it also adds 4 edge focus control instead of center/edge.
Marc
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