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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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hell yeah, way to put some fire back into a sour thread.  I love this sh*t, where do you guys find it. I still have a photo f elevator fairies somewhere on my PC that Crab posted.
I did laugh at first
| Quote: | | ear-popping, Cinerama-like, wraparound sound-stage, and an overall sound even less tethered to the speaker positions |
my system already does this with no magic hat on the cartridge. 
loved this from another forum about what they're made of
| Quote: | | Yes they're full of bullshitonium...a not so rare obtainable substance |
Then I read a snippet Michael Fremmers review (couldn't find the complete vol. 38 on-line), and I'm inclined to believe that this thing might dosomething to the sound, change the sound in some way. It's not hard to imagine for me, if I turn on my system to listening levels and simply blow lightly on my cart., not like a birthday candle but like a hot cup of coffee, I can hear the sound coming amplified thru my speakers.
So it stands to reason that if bolt on a metal plate or glue on a plastic or ceramic disc, to your cart, your changing the resonant frequency of the cartridge. Everything has a resonant frequency, if you vibrate a building at just the right frequency you can cause it to crumble and collapse. Even individual atoms have a resonant frequency, so anything in between those object will also.
A TT design is complex and becomes really intricate because your trying to put the RezFreq outside of normal listening level. Usually shooting for below 20Hz or Above 20Khz, and that's hard to do. With the platter and plinth, below 20 is typical which is why you see those massive granite jobs. With tonearms, it's always above 20K, trying to make the arm light and rigid.
for some people this becomes a source of amusement , because you can affect all of this by swapping in different counterweights on the tone-ram, a different platform for the TT to sit on, like a giant block of stone, a butchers block, or a wall shelf. It changes the sound, for better or worse, depending on what kind of attributes you like and what type of music you listen to. You will get more or less bass, more or less mid-range, treble, tonal balance, different decay to notes, etc. Would I pay 200 bucks for this silly "Phono transducer" thing thing, no, but that doesn't mean it doesn't change the sound in the smallest minutia. This happened here recently, a friend brought over a box of fancy cables, they changed the sound too, but nothing I had to have at the prices he paid.
Problem is , If you buy a $500. cartridge, you will be buying something tuned for tonal balance at the factory under certain conditions, a particular TT with Particular Platter, platter mat, plinth and tonearm. So if you buy a complete TT this will all be accounted for at that price point. If you start mucking around, your off onto the audiophile merry-go-round, and that's not a fun place to be unless you have time and money to burn. Most of the time the sound isn't better or worse, just different, but if you've listened to it one way for 200 records, you change something and think it's "better" when it's just different cuz you have grown bored with the way it used to sound.
All of this falls in the category of listening to your equipment instead of listening to music, which is like an audiophile disease. I prefer the approach "Get it to where you like it and leave it alone" 
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | My Sony STR-DN1020 (left over from my previous HT) has been acting up (audio cuts off or squeals... doesn't power down, doesn't give protect warning, has plenty of ventilation, but it hasn't done it again since I pointed a fan at it).
Anyway, I just needed an excuse to buy one of the tube amps I've been looking at, so I ordered a miniwatt N3 tube amplifier:
3.5 frickin' watts! |
hopefully your just planning to drive some very small bookshelf's? Typically with tubes and full size speakers you need at least 93dB efficiency.
Personally, I don't care for tube amplifiers, to me they have sounded tinny and shallow, no Bass. Had one here recently that was a $3500. unit and still preferred my Denon 3805, although to be fair my main speakers are only 86dB.
[quote="Clarence"]I might order a Little Bear tube phono preamp to go with it.
I was originally going to order the Nobsound:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KFGKKR2/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00KFGKKR2&linkCode=as2&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=JDPKCQFWJMGL54GH
With the Lil bear you can see exactly what your getting, It's basically a copy of the EAR phono stage.
That other Chinese stuff, well, it's always a gamble. I mean that Kanobsound put a tube front end on display and hid a Solid stage output , OK for 200 bucks, but to be that far off on the heater filament voltage is just plain sh*tty.
| Clarence wrote: | My favorite vinyl finds this week from the thrift store $1 bin:
ZZ Top - Tres Hombres (this album will be 42 years old in a few days!)
Aerosmith - Toys in the Attic
Chuck Berry
Marvin Gaye |
ZZ top and Aerosmith, wow, really takes me back to the 80's. I've been meaning ot add some MArvin to my collection, sad story that one, murdered by his own father. 
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the latest thing for turntable fans. And it can probably be gluten-free!
https://youtu.be/rdzCv_9eaoM
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | Here's the latest thing for turntable fans. |
Pretty cool.
That's about how my original Sony USB turntable sounded.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone knows that flour Tortillas sound better, the corn ones are kinda grainy.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | hopefully your just planning to drive some very small bookshelf's? Typically with tubes and full size speakers you need at least 93dB efficiency.
Personally, I don't care for tube amplifiers, to me they have sounded tinny and shallow, no Bass. Had one here recently that was a $3500. unit and still preferred my Denon 3805, although to be fair my main speakers are only 86dB. |
The tube amp just arrived. I love it.
Footprint is only the size of a CD case. Heavy and well-built. Very simple and clean design. I ordered some upgraded tubes, just to swap out and keep the originals as spares.
I was previously concerned about only having 3.5 watts. But after hooking it up, it does fine even cranking up well beyond my typical listening levels.
Right now I'm using some 5-1/4" Polk Audio M10's that I had in storage which I used as surrounds a long time ago. Their efficiency is only 89db. There are some Klipsch VF-36 on CL with efficiency spec of 97.5 db.
But after listening, I think I'll just keep using these small Polks. Of course I'm cheating and also using a Cerwin-Vega 15" powered sub which I took out of my HT after I built the jumbo folded horn. So that more than compensates for any lack of bass from the tubes or from the bookshelf speakers.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Those little polks are fine, efficiency is not important with a very small speaker because most of the energy required in a big speaker is the bass/woofer, and small speakers don't have that as an issue. No Bass, no problem. 
Back in the tube amp days and 93dB speakers, there were no powered subs AFAIK.
Love the smiley face equalizer, really takes me back to 1982
| Clarence wrote: | |
nice,
you need more albums,
but otherwise a nice little system. I hope our next house is more conducive to bring the 2-channel up out of the basement and into the living room. My kids are old enough now to have the TT upstairs.
| Clarence wrote: | |
your tube is crooked 
the stock Chinese tubes aren't as bad as people would lead you to believe. We tried some fancy NOS Phillips in a little bear at my place and yeah, they were a little smoother, but not $200. smoother.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | your tube is crooked |
Yeah, I noticed that too, but the tube was hot and I wasn't going to power down just for a picture.
I've got some highly-recommended JJ EL84's on the way. Matched pair was only $20. It'll be fun to see if I can hear an improvement. Otherwise, it'll just be nice to have the old ones as a spare set.
More albums always on the way. Several Johnny Cash, Zeppelin, Van Morrison, Talking Heads...
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:32 am Post subject: |
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So I found a pair of 1979 vintage Physics Genesis 2 speakers last month on CL.
Everybody raved about them, especially the "fried egg" tweeter.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168893
| Quote: | | grab 'em. You won't be sorry |
| Quote: | Those were my first GW/Re-Foam find....(sigh)
yes, they be worth it |
| Quote: | | Here is the rule - Grab any EPI or Genesis speaker with the inverted tweeter |
| Quote: | | just about the sweetest vintage two-way that you will ever listen to |
| Quote: | | They are fantastic speakers |
| Quote: | | They're still in the top three for speakers I've owned |
| Quote: | | I love my Genesis and boy do they image well for a fairly large bookshelf speaker. |
| Quote: | | IMO the Genesis excel with tubes |
| Quote: | | Personally I think there's something not quite right about Genesis speakers without green foam |
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251256&page=2
| Quote: | | Everyone seems to rave about the old Genesis speakers. |
| Quote: | | There's a good reason for that |
| Quote: | | fab sounding speakers, go way lower than you'd expect |
| Quote: | | I drove 12 hours to pick up some Genesis 410s and I dont ever plan on selling them unless life forces me to |
Dozens of threads like that. Everybody loved them.
The older gentleman that I got them from was the original owner. Still had the original receipt ($1030 in 1979  ) and the lifetime warranty card (original owner still living at the same address).
1979 brochure:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/genesis/gen2.htm
When I got there he played them on his stereo so I could hear how good they sounded. I asked what condition the surrounds were in. He had no idea. He didn't even know the grill was removeable. We popped them off (Velcro... space age stuff for 1979). All 4 foam surrounds were crumbling. He was crushed. But I told him that I could refoam them. He just wanted them to have a good home. So I gave them a good home.
The company went under in 1986. The lifetime warranty is no longer valid, but a former employee still offers support at http://www.humanspeakers.com/genesis/genstory.htm He kindly offered to sell me a replacement driver, passive radiator, tweeter, crossover, and speaker terminals.
Long story short, I ordered my own replacement foam, dyed them green (their signature... like CV uses red surrounds), replaced the caps and resistor on the crossovers, upgraded the spring clips with binding posts.
And I'll be damned... they sound great.
They're probably too big for my office...
But man, do they sound nice.
Anybody heard of Genesis?
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Very nice! what did you use to dye the surrounds?
I like that shelf idea but would move those speakers onto stands for isolation.... and turn it up to 11 
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | Very nice! what did you use to dye the surrounds? |
It's called Angelus Leather Dye. Read about it on one of the Genesis restoration threads. Worked great. I chose "Light Green", but it's probably a bit brighter than the original surrounds were. I'd probably choose just "Green" or "Avocado Green" if I ever do it again. But aside from the pictures, the grills are going back on, so the color doesn't really matter. It just added to the vintage spirit.
Another tip that worked well... the vinyl veneer was in good condition but it had a slightly sticky coating. Restoration guy said to use "Goop" hand cleaner. OMG, that worked great! Kinda wished they were solid wood or at least ply veneer. Seems like ugly speakers often end up sounding the best.
| jask wrote: | | I like that shelf idea but would move those speakers onto stands for isolation.... and turn it up to 11 |
Yeah, after listening to these Genesis speakers, I'm going to keep using them even though they're really too large for that shelf. I'm going to mount 2 white shelves slightly higher, one for each Genesis... probably 6 inches beyond the edge and a couple of inches up. They just sound too good to take down.
My favorite 2LP from a lot at a local auction this weekend at a killer price. Great condition, even included the lyrics poster... 
Also got Hard Day's Night, a trashed copy of Beatles 1967-1970 (Blue), 3 AC/DC (BB, Powerage, and FotW), Queen II and Night at the Opera (trashed), Zeppelin HotH (nice), 4 Johnny Cash, Supertramp (Breakfast), Van Morrison (Tupelo Honey), Police (Zenyatta), Molly Hatchet (Flirtin'), Bad Co (Straight Shooter), Black Sabbath (SoS4RnR).
Out of 21 records, 19 are VG+ and 2 have visible scratches. Not too bad for $1.xx each
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Shaaaa weeeet! You got me spinning In through the out door and Graceland after I saw those
. Night at the Opera is awesome! my 12 Year old decid3ed out of the blue to chose Bohemian Rhapsody as a challenge project for piano lessons ( outside of regular assigned work selected piece that the teacher thinks is outside of the students scope... ) he is working on some of the harder sections and week by week it is WILD to hear the progress.... I do not play a lick so nothing but respect from Dad - I know when he is slacking and I can hear when he is "learning" the notes vs killing a section with the rhythm and voice and it is awesome to hear this on the piano and thinking back to my experience of this music
If you want to wall mount the speakers try this.... rest the needle on a block in the cue position and use headphones with the volume cranked up... have someone bang on the wall ...walk down the hall... walk across the floor in the room,... play a portable stereo in the room... etc there is a lot of noise that comes through the structure of your house... server HDDs, air con units etc I relocated some gear and moved speakers after doing this test and even though I have some industrial hearing loss it was so obvious once I had heard it without the music.
Picked up a Depeche Mode Violator LP today... PRISTINE! plastic still on... 2.50$ great album... awful videos... spin that vinyl!!
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:29 am Post subject: |
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You should not have the speakers on the same shelf as the turntable. The speakers will send vibrations through the turntable and the vibrations will be picked up by the styles.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I moved the speakers to a credenza directly under the record rack/shelf. That puts the speakers at ear-level when I'm at my desk. And it isolates them from the wall-mounted turntable.
I also ordered isolation pads to put under the turntable feet.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | my 12 Year old decid3ed out of the blue to chose Bohemian Rhapsody as a challenge project for piano lessons ( outside of regular assigned work selected piece that the teacher thinks is outside of the students scope... ) he is working on some of the harder sections and week by week it is WILD to hear the progress.... |
Props to your kid! Bohemian Rhapsody is **NOT** an easy piece to play. I haven't seen the sheet music in decades, but I remember it switching keys and/or time signatures about every other measure, at least in some parts. Also complex chromatic chords. Not simple stuff to play.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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you guys must live in very small podunk towns to be picking up nice vinyl for a buck, or even 2. the least I've paid recently was $3.00 and that was a very common Boston, 1st album. More common is $5. to $7.00 for a clean (and not rare) album.
Trying to find a nice copy right now of Chris Isaac's Heart Shaped World and a sealed copy just sold on e-bay for $50. w/shipping
If your really finding vinyl that cheap I would be selling it on Audiogon or e-bay.
Re vintage speakers. I like old stuff as much as the next guy, old cars, bicycles, vintage receivers and TT's, but old speakers are hit and miss, mostly miss for me. Almost all The ones I've heard have a very narrow sound-stage, they tend to "beam out" rather than fill a space. No bass, muted high's, and a very colored mid-range. Basically all the reason I went out and bought my first pair of "modern speakers" back in the early 90's.
That said, volume levels, amplification, and how your room/speakers are set-up makes a big difference. The one guy I know who really likes them uses them as back-ground music in a small bed-room, usually while he reads or plays video games.
which is a lot different from trying to fill a large to medium size room and sitting there actively listening and concentrating on the music. I've never heard the genesis , so no comment there, but nice looking restoration on your part.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Trying to find a nice copy right now of Chris Isaac's Heart Shaped World and a sealed copy just sold on e-bay for $50. w/shipping |
I'll check for the Chris Isaac next time I go. I usually just flip through the $1/$2/$3 bargain bins... bad covers don't bother me if the vinyl is very good. The bulk of their collection is all alphabetized. But it's usually $6/8/10.
ebay has one that's not sealed but VG++ for $33 (271918631417)
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