|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Curt Palme wrote: | | I'm thinking that this is another cheap ploy to get the average consumer to buy new stuff. Very few people fix the older receivers, and the newer they are, the more complex they are to boot, so without schematics, the few that are being serviced by competent techs are less likely to be. I used to recommend Denon, but no more if they pull this crap. |
I feel the same way Curt, though, regardless of how denon is handling their service manuals, I still enjoy the current denon equipment I have. (I most likely am the one who Mac is talking about since I own plenty of denon  )
Will I recommend people buy denon? Not sure, I would like to, their equipment blows Pioneer away, but if pioneer equipment remains servicable and denon not so much... well I would have to go with the brand that could be fixed, since not EVERYONE is going to replace their broken equipment, (me being one of them )
So Mac, do you have the service manual for the AVR 2307CI and 5805 still? I have the 5805 SM, so if you need it I can send it to you. (and if it does dissapear, I WILL do something about it, Denon will be sorry )
Then again mac, could just be old age creeping up on ya  hehehe
_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
FYI, Denon has also gone the cheap route in some of their components. I had a late model set (AVR688) that would go into protection shortly after turnon. With Mac's help, I found a voltage regulator that went down to 11 volts instead of of 15. They are using plastic regulators, that don't have the same heat transfer capabilities as the metal tabbed ones. What, for the cost of 1/10 of a cent of metal?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeremy112 wrote: |
(I most likely am the one who Mac is talking about since I own plenty of denon )
|
Nope.... 
| Jeremy112 wrote: |
So Mac, do you have the service manual for the AVR 2307CI and 5805 still?
|
I still have them all. The only ones that disappeared were the ones I kept on my main PC that is connected to the net that were a dump off another website.
| Jeremy112 wrote: |
Then again mac, could just be old age creeping up on ya hehehe |
Hey, watch it there. You still have broken crap..... 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Curt Palme wrote: | | FYI, Denon has also gone the cheap route in some of their components. I had a late model set (AVR688) that would go into protection shortly after turnon. With Mac's help, I found a voltage regulator that went down to 11 volts instead of of 15. They are using plastic regulators, that don't have the same heat transfer capabilities as the metal tabbed ones. What, for the cost of 1/10 of a cent of metal? |
Its actually rather easy to distinguish denons quality stuff from their not so quality stuff, the model you just specified is a best buy POS, I dont even have to look at it and I know it has a plastic face.
Anything denon is going to spend their money to put an aluminum face on is more than likely of much better electronic quality than their plastic faced garbage.
Plastic electronics = plastic sound
_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeremy112 wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | FYI, Denon has also gone the cheap route in some of their components. I had a late model set (AVR688) that would go into protection shortly after turnon. With Mac's help, I found a voltage regulator that went down to 11 volts instead of of 15. They are using plastic regulators, that don't have the same heat transfer capabilities as the metal tabbed ones. What, for the cost of 1/10 of a cent of metal? |
Its actually rather easy to distinguish denons quality stuff from their not so quality stuff, the model you just specified is a best buy POS, I dont even have to look at it and I know it has a plastic face.
Anything denon is going to spend their money to put an aluminum face on is more than likely of much better electronic quality than their plastic faced garbage.
Plastic electronics = plastic sound |
But unfortunately it still has their name on it.....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Jeremy112 wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | FYI, Denon has also gone the cheap route in some of their components. I had a late model set (AVR688) that would go into protection shortly after turnon. With Mac's help, I found a voltage regulator that went down to 11 volts instead of of 15. They are using plastic regulators, that don't have the same heat transfer capabilities as the metal tabbed ones. What, for the cost of 1/10 of a cent of metal? |
Its actually rather easy to distinguish denons quality stuff from their not so quality stuff, the model you just specified is a best buy POS, I dont even have to look at it and I know it has a plastic face.
Anything denon is going to spend their money to put an aluminum face on is more than likely of much better electronic quality than their plastic faced garbage.
Plastic electronics = plastic sound |
But unfortunately it still has their name on it..... |
Very true, Pioneer still puts their name on their plastic stuff.... at least I have the comfort of knowing that their are select components from every brand that is/was the best at one time are still around and available on ebay from time to time.
I went with the AVR 5805 because of a few reasons, A its 97 pounds, that says it has some sort of build quality to it that is unusual for todays standards, B it cost me about as much as my new plastic pioneer VSX-80TXV I bought in 2006, C it has actual aluminum on it, and not just for the faceplate, but the knobs, buttons, and even the side panels are aluminum. I'm sure pioneer would have found a way to cheapen it up so they wouldnt have to put aluminum all over it, and keep it almost as sturdy. And lastly, D I have not, and I cannot stress it enough, have not found anyone else on the internet with any issues with their AVR 5805, unless it was abused like mine were. I know they are still young in terms of age for the components themselves, but if I can't locate any common issues at all on the internet about it, then it has to have more build quality than the usual.
Then again the $6000 MSRP could also be the reason why there isn't much on it, since its so expensive I'm sure they didn't quite sell like hotcakes.
The most important thing however, for any A/V receiver is of course how it sounds. And contrary to what I have read here or there (at best), this is the best sounding A/V receiver I have come in contact with ever. It can do almost anything short of a few of the more modern technologies that were not available when it was manufactured.
At least denon still makes an effort on their TOTL equipment, Pioneer gave that up after the SC-09TX
_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When I first built my (very modest) home theater, I needed an AVR. A friend of mine in the audio business told me to get a Denon.
I just couldn't get past the price tag at that time.... near a GRAND!
So I went shopping. I tried Pioneer, Technics, and a few others. Always something just didn't sound right....
I returned with my tail between my legs and bought the Denon. Problem solved.
Not sure what it is, but the Denon sounds and performs great. No distortion or decoding artifacts. The 2800 is old, but it uses dual power supplies for the analog and digital stages. I have been very happy with it. And it's not plastic...
Denon did make some good gear.
BTW, self deletion is part of the PDF spec. Adobe WILL ping the net, and if a file was tagged, it will be gone.
Not sure if Foxit does this, but that's what I use.
Marc
_________________
This space for rent.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tinman wrote: |
BTW, self deletion is part of the PDF spec. Adobe WILL ping the net, and if a file was tagged, it will be gone.
Not sure if Foxit does this, but that's what I use.
Marc |
I have implemented measures to prevent this from future occurrences.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Tinman wrote: |
BTW, self deletion is part of the PDF spec. Adobe WILL ping the net, and if a file was tagged, it will be gone.
Not sure if Foxit does this, but that's what I use.
Marc |
I have implemented measures to prevent this from future occurrences. |
"Enquiring minds need to know" what are those measures?
_________________
Aubrey
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| paw wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Tinman wrote: |
BTW, self deletion is part of the PDF spec. Adobe WILL ping the net, and if a file was tagged, it will be gone.
Not sure if Foxit does this, but that's what I use.
Marc |
I have implemented measures to prevent this from future occurrences. |
"Enquiring minds need to know" what are those measures? |
There are several.
You could change the file, but best is to just burn them to read only media.
Marc
_________________
This space for rent.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
DMH is the conglomerate holding company for Denon and Marantz. I would imagine they consider Marantz their elite brand and Denon the consumer brand and thus being highly disposable gear. As such, I would expect them to get away with cheap components until such time sufficient backlash from consumers takes hold.
Wouldn't this be about the mode of operation with their competition (Pioneer, Sony, etc.)?
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tinman wrote: | | paw wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Tinman wrote: | BTW, self deletion is part of the PDF spec. Adobe WILL ping the net, and if a file was tagged, it will be gone.
Not sure if Foxit does this, but that's what I use. |
I have implemented measures to prevent this from future occurrences. |
"Enquiring minds need to know" what are those measures? |
There are several.
You could change the file, but best is to just burn them to read only media. |
Burning CDs or DVDs is probably the cheapest, easiest way to prevent any kind of deletion or removal.
Another is to get a Mac OS X box.
Marc, I started my career in prepress and publishing, so I've been using PDF since the beginning, and I've never heard of file deletion in the PDF spec. PDF can include usage rights and DRM, and depending on what viewer you use, the viewers could contact a server to obtain/deny rights, but it would just display a dialog that the document was no longer viewable, or that the view period had expired. I've never heard of any PDF file being deleted.
Since Acrobat can execute code like a browser, the PDF format can be exploited for malicious purposes, including installing malware on a computer. But, again... I've never heard of the exploit being used to just delete certain files.
I think for the files to be deleted in the manner Mac is suggesting, there would need to be a malicious payload in one or some of PDFs. Then, the user would need to lack updated antivirus software to allow the malicious code to run/install.
I think the idea of CE manufacturer intentionally, surreptitiously installing malicious code on a system, for the purposes of removing data - even if it's copyrighted data - is extremely unlikely. I'd need to see proof before I believed it. Even a repair manual PDF with the malicious code wouldn't be proof, as there's no way of knowing if it was the manufacturer or some third-party who inserted the code. That's the problem with getting stuff "on the internet" versus directly from the source.
SC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My brother works in IT. He told me that it IS in the spec, originally designed to avoid sensitive information from being accidentally leaked, etc. But he said that he has never before seen anyone implement it like this.
Whatever. I believe him, he's been right so far. When I told him about this he looked a little curious and then explained the whole thing to me. With the "The guy should upload the whole thing on bit torrent, and the info will then be out there forever." added to the end.
Marc
_________________
This space for rent.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
