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Reference White Balance & Kelvin Recommendations?

 
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reference White Balance & Kelvin Recommendations?

The colors on my NEC XG1100 are way off, at least enough that the image is dim, colors are not accurate, blacks seem t black

I need to kn0w what the recommended settings should be for the machine, so any help would be appreciated a LOT!

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tanwn



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 104


Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am    Post subject:

There are no recommended settings as each CRT and tube is specific to the unit. You can't use another similar CRT and apply the same setting. You need to do a calibration with the required tools.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject:

http://www.curtpalme.com/NEC_XG_G2_Calibration.shtm

The following procedure was originally written by forum member KennyG.

Several people have been asking about this, so here goes.

G2 is nothing more than the turn on/off voltage of your tube. If G2 is off, the only thing that will happen is Blacks and shadow detail will suffer because all the tubes are not turning on and off together... NEC XG's use a considerably more refined (or complicated?) procedure in setting G2/grayscale.

Color saturation can be left at your normal viewing adjustment.

Thank Doug Baisey, Guy Kuo, Jeff and all the other NEC guys, they gave this info to me, I simply numbered it and rewrote it slightly so it was easier for me to follow.

Steps:

1) Allow 30 min warm up.

2) Turn color saturation in your video processing all the way down, otherwise grayscale can be thrown off by several hundred degrees.

3) Set your processor to a minimum of line doubling, your can use anything above that also.

4) If your processor has brightness and contrast control set them to default.

5) Turn "Blue Focus Tracking" off...display focus pattern and adjust for sharpest focus, then turn "Blue Focus Tracking" back on. (This insures correct amount of projector defocusing) .

6) Set all "Kelvin" adjustments to default (50, both Black & White).

7) Open "Blanking" to max in all directions.

8) Set "Brightness" to 60.

9) Set "Contrast" to show 100ire window at normal level for your system (default?).

10) Set "AKB" test switch to test position.

11) Set your DMM (digital multimeter) to VDC and measure test points TP7404 (red G2) TP 7504 (green G2) and 7604 (blue G2) verify the voltage is 2.5 vdc +/-0.1 vdc...if not try small adjustments of "Contrast", if that doesn't help, call a service tech.

12) Adjust Black Bias to 50 (default) this is just a "rough setting".

13) Set "AKB" test switch back to Normal position.

14) Display AVIA "Verical Crossed Gray Ramp" pattern.

Note: Now begins the "adjustment loop" which you must repeat until G2 voltages no longer deviate from 2.5 vdc then readjusting and re-measuring during changes in the upcoming adjustments.

A) Begin Green Loop:

B) Adjust "Black Bias" to make TP7504 (GRN) read 2.5 vdc +/ 0.1vdc.

C) Look into the Green tube & see Gray ramps going vertically in opposite directions. Pay close attention to the dark edges of either ramp. Set "Bright Bias" to a point that just makes the dark outer edges of the ramps go black...the idea is to make the smallest amount of the ramp go black, make sure some of the ramp DOES go black.

D) Set "Brightness" to 0.

E) Look into the Green lens, you will now see a much darker looking ramp. Look at the edge of the ramp that goes from light to dark...Adjust "Bright Gain" to make the black edges of the ramps just meet at the center.

F) Set "Brightness" back to 60.

G) IF Green G2 still reads 2.5 vdc +/- 0.1 then exit Green adjustment loop...otherwise restart adjustment loop at step "B" (it's a good idea to run through this a second time anyway).

16) Begin Red adjustment loop, repeat steps B thru G.

17) Repeat steps B thru G for Blue gun.

18) From this point on, DO NOT adjust any of the Green gun's settings in the "White Ref" menu...this gun will serve as a reference by which Red & Blue guns are fine tuned for grayscale.

19) Calibrate grayscale using "Drive Control" for 100 ire window, and "Bright Bias" for the low end (30 ire) note that it will take several adjustment loops to get a flat grayscale, as these adjustment are dependent on each other.

20) Since you have probably had to change the G2 calibrated Red & Blue "Bright Bias" setting to get Red & Blue guns to track with the Green you must check your TP voltages again, if they are not at 2.5 vdc readjust "Black Bias" to get proper voltage.

21) Verify that "AKB" test switch makes only minor changes in screen appearance.

22) Readjust Brightness, Contrast & Kelvin for each memory slot.

Your done!

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:17 am    Post subject:

What happens when you change the KELVIN settings and make them look how you think they should?? Each set is calibrated individually.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
What happens when you change the KELVIN settings and make them look how you think they should?? Each set is calibrated individually.


Whenever I mess with the white balance/Reference white balance settings, I can seem to get very close, but my blacks seem extremely crushed... Whenever I improve the black levels the image does start to improve overall, but there doesn't seem to be enough brightness from the blue tube, if I turn the blue bright bias up, I can remedy this issue, but the raster becomes rather bright and noticable, and makes the image look washed out...

I understand that I need a colorimeter to properly calibrate these settings, and that each set is very specific on correct colors...

Nash, I will go ahead and try that lengthy list you pasted from the main site, hopefully that will at least get it somewhat back to normal.

I should note the color on this projector has never seemed "quite" right, the old tubes were rather burned and toasted, and I never messed with those settings before since I figured the tubes were mostly responsible, which they indeed were, but the colors were still off enough to keep bothering me.

It is amazing that, no matter how clear, sharp, and geometrically perfect you get the image,.. that if the colors are off even just enough to be noticable, it will keep one from being happy with the image itself....


If for the first 7 days you don't succeed, try try again until your eyes start playing tricks on you! Shocked

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject:

When the blacks seem crushed, turn down the brightness. If the blue isnt bright enough, you need to defocus it abit more.

Id say that is all it is, the blue output is always dim til you defocus it.
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject:

What do you have the colour temp set to by the way??
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject:

One thing about blue Jeremy, to get proper white balance and greyscale you have to De Focus blue. Blue does not output as much luminance and usually people drive them harder but this doesn't help that much when ramping up contrast it just gives out and runs out of steam. the way to overcome this is to de focus blue to get proper whites at a decent contrast level where the white grid lines do not bloom.

The reason you can defocus blue and not affect overall sharpness is that Blue is the hardest color to focus on, so if its defocused afew notches it is not noticeable to the eye from your viewing location.

Athanasios

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject:

How many times do i have to say that..... NECs have a switch for this job.....
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:57 pm    Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
How many times do i have to say that..... NECs have a switch for this job.....


I have not messed with the defocus switch since I recieved this unit, it is still in the defocus position.

I understand the need for blue to be defocused, and it is considerably defocused compared to red and green. My contrast is set at 68 and my brightness is also in the mid 60s as well. I know that driving the projector settings too much is a bad thing for the overall performance of the projector, and that is why I have not moved the brightness or contrast above 70 while I have been attempting to get this figured out.

The main reason I am messing with the blue is because the blacks/raster either show too much or not enough, and given the fact that I am on an 82" screen I would think that would be a great size for a brighter image. It just seems like shadow detail and blacks are impossible to reach.

I am 100% willing to admit that I do NOT have experience with color calibration. It is one thing I have always tried to keep away from if I can, for fear of making it worse.

I will go ahead with the provided suggestions and see where it gets me...

If I do get the colors near where they should be, I am going to leave it, and purchase a colorimeter to do it the right way.

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject:

Ok gotcha right there in the first line. You need to turn that OFF, then focus it sharp, THEN turn on the DEFOCUS Wink That is how it works.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:04 am    Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Ok gotcha right there in the first line. You need to turn that OFF, then focus it sharp, THEN turn on the DEFOCUS Wink That is how it works.


I knew you would find that and catch that once I read one of your other posts on the forum Razz I haven't had time to mess with the XG yet, at least I CAN use it, I just want it to be better Very Happy

I appreciate all the tips you have all given me, I don't mess with this stuff enough to keep all the details in my memory. There is a LOT to remember about these things, especially if you have/work on more than one model. At least I have tube replacement aced, that was my biggest fear when I bought one of these beasts, not because I would mess it up, but because of the fear of electrocution, which still isn't any more fun than it was the first time!!

All in all, I am proud of myself considering I used to turn the other way when I heard CRT, I'm glad I gave them a chance, its worth it once you get it setup correctly, thats for sure:mrgreen:

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:50 am    Post subject:

Why would you be electrocuted?? Where you planning on doing the swap while you had the set turned on?? I dont see you getting shot down unless this is what you planned....

I spent an hour in hospital on saturday just gone due to electric shock at work actually, its a standard thing i follow whenever i get a shock to go and get put on the heart machine to make sure im not going to have cardiac arrest a few hours later... Im an electrician so it happens from time to time, especially when youre following the work of others... Some of which had no business in there in the first place since they were not electricians...
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Why would you be electrocuted?? Where you planning on doing the swap while you had the set turned on?? I dont see you getting shot down unless this is what you planned....

I spent an hour in hospital on saturday just gone due to electric shock at work actually, its a standard thing i follow whenever i get a shock to go and get put on the heart machine to make sure im not going to have cardiac arrest a few hours later... Im an electrician so it happens from time to time, especially when youre following the work of others... Some of which had no business in there in the first place since they were not electricians...


Well you can never be too careful, While I was setting up my friends 1272Q one day about a year ago, we had to move the projector to the left a bit, the top plastics were not on the projector and it was running while we moved it to the left above 5 or 6 inches, I told him right before he grabbed the projector to be careful for the HV block...

Well he stuck his hand right on top of it nice and tight, then flew away from it all freaked out, his hair was standing straight up, it was a good laugh, and probably a lesson learned for my friend Smile

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Jeremy112 wrote:
[

....and probably a lesson learned for my friend Smile


Nah, don't count on it. Some of us keep going back for more! Smile
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:51 am    Post subject:

Yeah well that is RUNNING!!! Wink
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