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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | dturco wrote: |
However; I was think of staying under $150.
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Now here's a perfect example. How many weekenders here would even be willing to spend this much on soldering irons. Anyone that does more then occasional soldering already know what they need. They wont be asking. But for occasional solderers who may not have lots of money to just blow can solder just as well with a cheap iron. You dont like the filing thing, thats fine, to each his own but a cheap iron can still do the job, plain and simple. |
Sure it can. I just think in terms of the right tool for the right job. I like tools and always buy more "professional"then I'll usually need at first. That way I'm learning and not saying a month later, geeze if only I'd bought something better the first time.
Of course that just me, I never feel I've wasted any money on buying tools to help me learn easier, and can do more in the long run.
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
Last edited by dturco on Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I also firmly believe a radio shack iron with no variable temp power supply has no place in today's digital world either. Analog, sure, digital, soldeirng on fine pitch ICs, or other surface mount components, absolutely not. And if you look in the history of this thread, a member found a nice variable temp iron for $50. To each is own, but if you want to improve your skills, you have to arm yourself with the right gear.
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~Paul
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | You may be hard pressed to find a rework station with desoldering capabilities for that price point. The cheapest I've seen with a quick search was $250, and that unit the soldering iron is more of a gun type, which I am not a fan of.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-6340&scode=GS111&CAWELAID=220584301?gclid=CID3nNCVka0CFQmd7QodVnOInA
Here is what I use. Now, keep in mind this doesnt fit your price point, or most quite frankly, but I am using it for demonstrative purposes so you can see what I use, and the tips available for the soldering iron. That way you can do a search yourself and be a bit more educated of what your looking for in the price range your comfortable with.
http://www.techni-tool.com/static-products/pace/PaceMBT250SDDigitalHighPerformanceSensaTempSoldering.html
So as you can see, the soldering iron is a pencil, with the power supply as a seperate unit. Lighter, and allows you to get into tight places. So now on to the tips.
So here is a link to a set of 4 tips for $4. This type of size variety should be more than enough to cover the range. I also use a bent tip to help me get into tight places without burning nearby components.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=soldering+tips&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15339415021242457340&sa=X&ei=TcfwTuqaHcTYgQegz-mgCA&ved=0CIkBEPMCMAU#
Try to select a station that offers a decent tip selection. Buy this and take care of them and you shouldnt need to buy anymore.
Other things to get you started:
*Magnifying light on a swivel is great to have if you can afford it. I have yet to see these for under $200, so for home I use florescent light and a seperate magnifying glass for inspection of my work.
*Get yourself an ESD mat and wrist strap. Some components are resilent to Electrostatic Discharge (the whole rubbing your foot on the carpet and touching the door knob thing), others are very senstitive, such as ICs. Sometimes you zap them and weaken them, and they end up failing prematurely.
*To avoid using your iron as a pry bar, get yourself some nice tweezers and ESD safe alignment tool such as this:
https://webvia.techni-tool.com/VIA/viaImagePageIndex.jsp?row=0&pgName=viaListProducts.jsp&searchText=388sc5007&modifier=SEARCH&reqTitle=TITLE_VIASEARCHRESULT&newWindow=Y
This should get you on your way. I will see if I can't find a better desoldering station, but that may be tough to find at $150.
Again, this list is for those that like to tinker with their projectors and want to improve their skill, not the person using it once a year, so keep that in mind before throwing pot shots at me. |
Thanks Sparky, that's what I needed.
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, I thought you had found one at a good price. I also have a portable one that I use for travel. An older weller soldering station, but it also is variable temp.
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~Paul
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | | Ah, I thought you had found one at a good price. I also have a portable one that I use for travel. An older weller soldering station, but it also is variable temp. |
Hey Sparky that link for alignment tool and tweezers links to the Desoldering station or did they just tag my ip and always send me there?
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | | I also firmly believe a radio shack iron with no variable temp power supply has no place in today's digital world either. Analog, sure, digital, soldeirng on fine pitch ICs, or other surface mount components, absolutely not. . |
I can easily shoot this down with self experience but I'm not here to argue or to prove a point.
My problem here is when your trying to convince others who are just starting out that the only way to solder well is by buying expensive equipment. This is absolutely not true.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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And don't get me wrong here. I have absolutely nothing against buying expensive soldering equipment if someone feels that's what they want.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | And don't get me wrong here. I have absolutely nothing against buying expensive soldering equipment if someone feels that's what they want. |
No one is saying it can't be done. But when you started of many moons ago did you melt anything because the iron was too hot, because you just didn't know any better? That's what I am trying to avoid.
What I can't understand in general is how a $150 is "too expensive". If I were to send anything anywhere to be worked on the shipping is eating half of that expense every time, not counting labor. Now for what I am doing with the PT-22's I would have to ship the tube with it's special pin out along just to make sure it would work out. Now shipping the tube runs the risk of the tube being broken in shipping which would leave me sh*t out of luck. Not to mention I have to move the grounds because of the neckboard cages being removed.
Sometimes you have to do it yourself, and spending some money now should save money in the long run.
EDIT: Nevermind Mac, you posted the above while I was typing this.
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
Last edited by dturco on Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Dave. In your case I would never try to convince you otherwise.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | Sparky015 wrote: | | Ah, I thought you had found one at a good price. I also have a portable one that I use for travel. An older weller soldering station, but it also is variable temp. |
Hey Sparky that link for alignment tool and tweezers links to the Desoldering station or did they just tag my ip and always send me there? |
Oh, its probably the website tagging your IP address. I love their service, but Techni-Tool's website really sucks. The item number is 388SC5007
_________________
~Paul
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Sparky015 wrote: | | I also firmly believe a radio shack iron with no variable temp power supply has no place in today's digital world either. Analog, sure, digital, soldeirng on fine pitch ICs, or other surface mount components, absolutely not. . |
I can easily shoot this down with self experience but I'm not here to argue or to prove a point.
My problem here is when your trying to convince others who are just starting out that the only way to solder well is by buying expensive equipment. This is absolutely not true. |
I can shoot you down with experience and numerous electronics industry journals as well. I'm not trying to whip out and compare lengths. The way Ive said to do things is what is taught to technicians and is industry standard, period. That is not up for debate. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and Im certainly not advocating top-end equipment. Another member found a station for $50 that met the requirements. I dont think thats expensive. I never said a desoldering rework station was necessary. I"m just bringing my experience to this forum. Everyone here is free to choose as they please. As you can see, they are.
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~Paul
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incova
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 789
Location: london
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: eh |
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Gotta be careful when I start a thread lol, I thought this was done and dusted.
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The more I learn
the less I know.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Sparky015 wrote: | | I also firmly believe a radio shack iron with no variable temp power supply has no place in today's digital world either. Analog, sure, digital, soldeirng on fine pitch ICs, or other surface mount components, absolutely not. . |
I can easily shoot this down with self experience but I'm not here to argue or to prove a point.
My problem here is when your trying to convince others who are just starting out that the only way to solder well is by buying expensive equipment. This is absolutely not true. |
I can shoot you down with experience and numerous electronics industry journals as well. I'm not trying to whip out and compare lengths. The way Ive said to do things is what is taught to technicians and is industry standard, period. That is not up for debate. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and Im certainly not advocating top-end equipment. Another member found a station for $50 that met the requirements. I dont think thats expensive. I never said a desoldering rework station was necessary. I"m just bringing my experience to this forum. Everyone here is free to choose as they please. As you can see, they are. |
No, but what you have been doing is bad mouthing cheap irons and saying you can't do the job with them. And I'm saying you can do it right with cheap irons and have been for decades.
I have not said anything negative about what you suggest as equipment. If you just stop suggesting that cheap irons can't do the job then I'll leave you alone.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: eh |
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| incova wrote: | | Gotta be careful when I start a thread lol, I thought this was done and dusted. |
Nah, the OP's are never involved at the end of a thread, especially around here. 
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: |
No, but what you have been doing is bad mouthing cheap irons and saying you can't do the job with them. And I'm saying you can do it right with cheap irons and have been for decades.
I have not said anything negative about what you suggest as equipment. If you just stop suggesting that cheap irons can't do the job then I'll leave you alone. |
OK, I am talking projectors and modern electronics, IE surface mount and ICs, which is what this thread started as. Your saying "decades" you have been doing this, in which case your referring to thru-hole and antiques, in which case yes, it will do the job, although you still run the risk of board delamination with thru-hole and heat damage to sensitive compoents, although this isn't much of an issue with older stuff. Maybe not an issue for you who has the experience, but for a rookie, risk is high. Filing tips is not acceptable regardless of the era of techology. Your removing all or most of the plating off the tip, and your left with a heat stick thats good for nothing else but creating moulton solder, in which case you have to jack the heat so far up to get anything to flow your bound to ruin something. Sure, with some practice, you could get good at it, but why?
So yes, a cheap iron will do the job, but its a thing of you get what you pay for, and for a rookie solderer, risk is very high of doing damage, almost a guarantee modifying your tip. You can not leave me alone, but I won't waiver on this. You want to work on modern stuff, you have to at least get yourself a variable temp and a few tip sizes, and you don't need to spend oogles of money to get it. I went high-end because I got a deal through work, and its the equipment I know best. I like nice tools. Your working on antique radios, nothing wrong with a cheap iron, but working on anything modern, and I'm talking mods and the like and not the guy doing one joint and tossing the machine away, spend the extra few dollars. Don't try to enter a boxing match with an arm tied behind your back. Seriously.
Rant done.
_________________
~Paul
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Again...funny... 
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