CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Scanline · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: New to forum , XG85 , 9500ultra

Hi all , I am new to this forum and a am passonate about CRT displays of all types. I recently purchased two projectors and am having much fun tweaking them in and learning about them via this forum. currently playing with an NEC XG-85 and am quite impressed with the picture quality from this air coupled machine , much better than i thought and am glad to have made the decision to buy it . I need to do some more reading on the 9500 ultra as i am having trouble getting good blacks with the moome card . Dont know which is the best way to set it up , G2 levels vs gamma etc. I might just go the route of a full magnetics and mechanical setup from scratch then the full electronic setup and see where i stand after that. I am one of those that probably tweak more than i watch Smile

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:24 am Post subject:

Welcome to the forum.

You don't by chance have a brother named Raster do you?

Congratulations on the XG-85

Scanline · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:29 am Post subject:

Lol , thank you. Great bunch of people out here !

Scanline · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:58 am Post subject:

I guess my reason for CRT like everybody else is image quality , erks that i cant stand are fixed pixel display/native only , filling the screen say with a letterbox format absolutly ruins the image . Poor contrast ratio Smile

, screen door effect . To me spherical faced dircct view CRT with a shadow mask produces quite acceptable images . Unfortunatly i dont know of any high end spherical direct view CRT displays. A fascinating 50's technology kinda like DLP in reverse produced amazing direct view images , CBS color format using a color wheel over usually a 10" black & white CRT (10bp4) . The trinitron flat seems to be the current best direct view technology but i do not like the non linear horizontal pitch especially at the edges. I do not like LCD in any way shape or form or any of similar technical off shoots from LCD . I do like DLP but unfortunatly still a long way off as far as contrast goes. I do not like contrast cheats like the iris , although intellegent backlighting on LCD flats is an interesting engeneering workaround Smile

to me nothing yet beats the perfectly registered image of 3 monochrome images from a CRT projector ! Coming technologies to compete with CRT i believe will be AMOLED flat panels in the next two years and laser scanned projectors like the PicoP. Fascinating times we live in today Smile

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:01 am Post subject:

Fascinating yes, I look at the new stuff, nod and grunt, then go watch a CRT. Laughing

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

The Philips Pixel Plus CRT i have here would be as good as a simular Sony, its a 16:9 format tube, pretty much dead flat, 1080i capable, and has 4 RGB inputs, as well as the usual other inputs.

Good projectors those NECs...

**kal** · Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the forum!

Love the username.... Wink

Kal

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hehe

They used to call him "Spotkill" but the jury found him innocent.

.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2649 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Welcome to the site!! Mr. Green

, I'm sure you'll love your NEC (I sure do Very Happy

)

mc86 · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:46 am Post subject:

Indeed, welcome -- as someone who is moving from a newbie to pubescence in CRT terms, I can tell you the value of this forum's information is only bested by the quality of people on here!

bests,
Matt

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

I won't disagree with you. I maybe getting a room freed up soon and I can't wait to install one of these 909s or the G90.

That being said. I think digital is pretty good. I don't like any of the flat panels. Well maybe plasma a little. LCD pjs are ok. I think LCOS looks pretty good especially JVCs high on/off. I have a dlp and agree that the on/off makes it hard to really enjoy. LED may give it a pretty good boost, but I am not sure if dlp will ever achieve high native on/off. Of course all digitals still suck with motion (except VDCs). Of course, JVCs 4k with native 4k material will make you forget about CRT, dlp, cars, food, the opposite sex, etc. Smile

Scanline · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:00 am Post subject:

Thanks guy's ,

Just a few questions please Smile

1) After my XG-85 is fully warmed up , there is a delay in shutdown. If I run it say for 10 minutes and hit the off
button on the remote , it instantly shuts down. After full warm up and I hit the off button , there is a 3 to 5 second delay
before it powers down , why ?

2) is it safe to turn the H-WIDTH pot on the Horizontal deflection board in the XG-85 ? I cannot get enough width to fully
fill the CRT face . I figure I will ask as there are stern warnings about turning Pot's in the XG Smile

3) confused about XG-852 point convergence specs. curtpalme.com/NECXG.shtm says 100 point convergence , curtpalme.com/PJSpecs_NEC.shtm says 200 point , My 852 has 208 so for all 3 colors 624 points in a 16x13 grid per tube.
Just curious as to why the differences in specs ? software revisions maybe ?

4) has anyone done any cooling mods the XG series ? STK's get hot , RIPPIN HOT ! I am not comfortable with semiconductors
getting this hot even if it is within spec. Many a consumer RPTV will blow the STK's , a very common failure and am curious
as to the failure rate with the STK's in a ceiling mounted NEC ?

I must say , the XG-85 has far exceeded my expectations , I love it !

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

You dont want to fill the tube face, you only want to go to about a half inch from the edge.

Its per colour, and there is a course and fine point adjust, which is likely where they get the 200 from, the fine is adding a point in between each course point.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2649 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Ahh leave it to NEC to make it complicated and confusing. They make a hell of a projector, but whoever wrote the manuals, sure didn't think like a person who would normally read them! Razz

Also, try to use the point convergence only after you have gotten the image as close to spot on without it, otherwise you could risk damage to your projector.

FWIW, my XG1100 has 100 point convergence, if there is a special 200 point convergence board out there that I am not aware of..., then I am damn glad not to have it! 100 points is more than enough! Heck Sony has 21 points on the 12xx series (the 1272Q for sure) and I didn't really have to use the point convergence at all, thats how close you should be able to get it before using it.

I can't say how hot the STK chips should be, I've never felt mine or measured their temp, but I can say safely that my STKs have worked perfect in the excruciatingly long year that I've owned it. The XGs are great PJs. They just demand more love than the rest Razz

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Garbage, use the point if you want to, cause that is what it is there for. It wont damage the projector at all.

Obviously the picture will look its best when the rig is set up properly, but 9 times out of 10, you wont get the green perfect without using abit of point to correct it, and if its not perfect, its NOT PERFECT. It also comes down to the surface youre shooting onto and how flat it is.

I wrote this a few weeks ago for another guy with an NEC, it was for a PG, but its still very simular in terms of steps.

Scanline · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject:

Well , I turned the H-WIDTH pot and have gotten the desired result ! My image now fully covers the face of the CRT's
with less than 1/8" unused phosphor area Smile

As far as the delay in shut down , I found that disable ASR relieved this problem.

I disagree with CasetheCorvetteman in as far as a half inch is too much waste of phosphor area. These are new
tubes and I want to get the most out of them by pushing the limit on phosphor area coverage. Maybe there can be a way
to liquid cool the entire bell of the pic tube to allow for overscan without worry Smile

Although radiation may be a
problem at that point. I do agree with CasetheCorvetteman as far as using the point .

Jeremy112 , I am surprised you do not like more points available for convergence ? The sole reason I purchased the NEC
was the fact that there are so many point adjustments Smile

Not as daunting as I initially thought , after getting the convergence
roughed in I do not need to do all the points to dial in a good overlay . In every other projector I have used , there was always
a small problem area that needed touch-up but could never be dialed in but with the fine point , you can jump directly to the problem area and make it perfect in a snap ! Yes , my Marquee with 45 points is more than enough but with the silly amount of point
available with the NEC , the picture is indeed PERFECT ! I wish the NEC had independent top bottom left and right amplitude adjustments to add to the mix Smile

If anybody out here with an XG could please test the temperature of the heatsinks of their projector after it is warmed up I would
appreciate it. The surface of the fins of the heatsinks for the A-DRIVE,F-DRIVE,C-DRIVE and V-DRIVE boards are accessible underneath
the projector. I place my fingers on these and: A-DRIVE is mild warm , F-DRIVE is so hot I cannot keep my fingers on it for more than 3 seconds , C-DRIVE is hot but can keep fingers on it indefinitely , V-DRIVE is mild warm.

Just curious to see if anybody else has a SUPER HOT focus board .

Thank you !

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Youre not dissagreeing with me there mate, youre dissagreeing with whoever wrote the NEC setup guide, and i think that was Curt. Either way, whoever DID right it knows a hell of alot more than you or i, and if they say that figure, as far as im concerned that is gospel, until someone like Macgyver or Mark A W comes along and says otherwise.

The NEC does have those adjustments you refer to, in the form of POINT convergence, so its better in a way, if you wanted to, you could put a string line up for every line of the crosshatch, and get each and every single one PERFECT every time. The POINT is there for this very purpose, its alot quicker to get it as perfect as you can without using the POINT and then finish up with it, and you really shouldnt have to move any point more than around 3-5 clicks, but if it would f*** the machine, they wouldnt have put it in.

Another thing about going so huge on the tube face ESPECIALLY in the horizontal plane is that when you move the LINEARITY on the red and blue to line up with the green, the picture will NO LONGER be in the center of the tube face, and you will have to correct for this and re-aim the tubes mechanically. In your case, youre likely to go off the edge of the tubes. Hopefully youll check and be SURE its not off the sides when youve got it all aligned, or you may as well kiss those tubes good bye.

The focus board... Yes... By driving the picture SO FAR OUT to the edges, the amount of electronic correction needed for focus will likey be more than usual. The further out you go, the more of an angle the beam hits the face at, resulting in an out of focus image around the edges, due to triangle shape dots. If youre using the focus controls to correct this, they will be working their arses off, and even more so if you havent set the mechanical astigmatism before going to the electronic. If youre going to do this, put some more fans in there to cool it down, or it aint gonna last.

Ill be back with a link and a quote for you RE that phosphor usage.

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Here it is here:

You may want to use the KEYSTONE menu to make the raster into a rectangle for easier measuring. Work at it to get the raster nicely centered, use a ruler if possible. You can use the GREEN AMPLITUDE setting to increase the raster until it is within a half inch (12mm) of the tube edges, no more than a quarter inch (6mm)! Yes, everyone wants to maximize the raster to use as much of the tube as possible, but the NEC is not designed for this. If you use too much, the electronics run hot, and will be unstable and even fail. You are warned.

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

I know Paul did some testing where he found that maximizing the raster on NECs reduced the sharpness in the corners. If you are running 16x9 or 2.35, then it should be less of a concern. Just note that it is there.

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Spanky i can second that, being that im a PG owner with no control over astig the far corners are pretty poor compared to the center 3/4s of the image, but unless youre looking at the focus pattern, its hardish to tell. Sharpness on NECs is incredible in most cases, but i think this is where they were coming from with their throw distances, cause the focus degrades exponentially once you go past a certain point near the outer face area.

Im funny about things like this and convergence though, if the convergence is a mil out anywhere, i can see it, and im drawn to it.

The NECs in my limited experience show incredible ability to hold convergence with pretty near zero drift for months at a time in my case.