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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: |
Spanky - in your opinion is that the price point (mid level JVC, ~4k) at which you get roughly equivalent IQ to a 9" CRT? Is stuff like the 8700UB just no comparison? |
I think the JVC is a great pj and does a lot of things better than a 9". As I have said before, CRT still wins in on/off and motion resolution. If either of those are important, then you might consider sticking with CRT. For me, my guesstimate is 10k to 1 on/off as my cutoff point. I have a Marantz dlp with 2k to 1 and the lack of on/off is noticeable. I have said in the past that most CRTers would probably be happy with 20k to 1. A better person to ask is the now absent Crabb. I think if you asked him if he could have a free 9" or a free JVC then he would choose the latter. Stay tuned for Cedia. I don't think there will be anything great this year, but you never know.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | I had simply assumed that an anamorphic lens was necessary for sufficient brightness, but if zooming works, I'm all for saving the money. Dragan - if it's bright enough, is there any hidden downside to running it this way |
can't say, i only saw an RS something or other with a premium lens and even the motorized sled on a motorized Stewart 16:9 screen. The picture was very good and then the guy pushed a button and the screen grew wider and the crystal view scaler and lens came on and it was like my jaw hit the floor. Then he told me how much it all cost and my jaw hit the floor even harder  I think 30 to 40K.
| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Spanky - in your opinion is that the price point (mid level JVC, ~4k) at which you get roughly equivalent IQ to a 9" CRT? Is stuff like the 8700UB just no comparison? |
I would like to see the 8700UB but it doens't seem like anyone here has yet either? I bet it looks bettere than some poorly set-up high hour 9 inch but can't come close to a good set-up on a fresh 9inch chassis/tubes
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. I think that when I get some time here, I'll put together my mint chassis + tubes and stop using my beater 9500. That will give me some time to evaluate the IQ before making a decision.
If anybody has experience with the 8700UB, let me know. I would be VERY tempted by that price bracket if the quality can compare.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't buy the 8700 at $2k. My guess is Epson will have the new (old) LCOS pjs ready this year. According to Jason at AVS, the street was going to be in the $2500 neighborhood.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | I wouldn't buy the 8700 at $2k. My guess is Epson will have the new (old) LCOS pjs ready this year. According to Jason at AVS, the street was going to be in the $2500 neighborhood. |
When you say new (old), do you mean they will be LCOS PJs possibly comparable to JVCs, but a generation or two behind? So perhaps a new $2500 projector comparable to an RS-20 or thereabouts?
What were the B-stock RS20's going for awhile back? I never looked. I don't have much of a frame of reference for the price of JVC PJs.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Epson debuted their new LCOS pjs at Cedia last year. They were constantly delayed until they just cancelled them. They should be sorted out and ready to go by Cedia. I wouldn't be surprised if they will be available soon after the show. These are Epson's own panels.
I don't remember what the JVC price was.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Epson called their technology Reflective LCD, not LCoS. While both technically reflect, the big difference is in how the actual pixel structure is formed, how efficient it uses panel space (fill factor), etc.
I think, though, that Epson thought it could compete in the $3.5-5K market with JVC and Sony, but when JVC brought out the HD250, which was essentially an RS10) and it hit the street for $2.5K that made life a lot more difficult for Epson.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am fully aware that they call it reflective LCD, but it is close enough to LCOS to group it together.
It isn't hard to figure out why the Epsons were delayed. They had trouble with manufacturing. This is their first go with LCOS. Hopefully they have worked out the problems in the last year. It will be interesting to see how this delays implementation for other manufacturers. If not this year, then next year there will be a lot of Epson LCOS chip pjs on the market.
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mc86
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 767
Location: pittsburgh, pa
TV/Projector: ECP 4500 (Vidikron box), ECP4500+, wanting 07MS/07MTS, evaluating pc soft-blend
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
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To hi-jack this a little bit (I sense it is wrapping up), it seems like "the masses" watch TV at home more than film and don't really care so much about IQ if told they need a screen and the lights low. CRT_Ben and eventually all but 5 people here will go digital, but do you guys think that even once the fast, good, cheap, and easy digital PJs get here that people will adopt a projector setup? I don't think so.
That is, is the number of PJ-based HTs going to grow or are we simply talking displacement of the home market toward ever-newer tech? Maybe this has more to do with the bazillions in india and china and what they want?
Matt
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| mc86 wrote: | To hi-jack this a little bit (I sense it is wrapping up), it seems like "the masses" watch TV at home more than film and don't really care so much about IQ if told they need a screen and the lights low. CRT_Ben and eventually all but 5 people here will go digital, but do you guys think that even once the fast, good, cheap, and easy digital PJs get here that people will adopt a projector setup? I don't think so.
That is, is the number of PJ-based HTs going to grow or are we simply talking displacement of the home market toward ever-newer tech? Maybe this has more to do with the bazillions in india and china and what they want?
Matt |
Most of them want a little money and enough food to eat. Not sure where a projector would fit in there.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Matt, economics has a lot to say about it. If I made a certain amount more money then the choice would be different. And this comes from a person not concerned where his next meal is coming from (re: AR's comments).
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mc86
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 767
Location: pittsburgh, pa
TV/Projector: ECP 4500 (Vidikron box), ECP4500+, wanting 07MS/07MTS, evaluating pc soft-blend
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Good points, but just 1% of 2,000,000,000 is still 20,000,000 people or about 1 Canada. That is still a lot of consumption and a correspondingly large impact on the market.
As I see it the % of folks that produce stuff over there is increasing and will accordingly be able to consume more. Since one must first produce in order to consume, I hope I can still produce stuff they want (right now, I help produce an engineering education...) in a few years.
Matt
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 334
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, this is going to need some scaling to do.I wonder if this is the DLP's world of competing against JVC and its forthcoming 4K home projection.
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 334
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know how much it will cost, but it should (eventually) be competing on the Panasonics with their built-in anamorphic mode and make 2.35 more affordable in the end. By making it 2.35 native they reduce complexity as they don't need the powered zoom or expensive anamorphic optics.
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AVStefan
Old setup: HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
New setup: JVC D-ILA -> Stewart StudioTek 130 G4
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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True, they just need to be able to hide the sides of the DMD when not watching 2.35 material.
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