CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Gannon]

<Sigh>

This turned into a novella. I'm truly sorry, for those who need their world in soundbites and executive summaries. My life doesn't happen in Haiku snippets.


Have I told you lately how much I hate HDMI?! The connection is OK I guess, but it's devilish sidekick HDCP is really kicking my ass again. And you cannot have one without the other, so I hate HDMI. I also despise everyone who blindly accepts this troublesome technology, and hate those who apologize for its many shortcomings and inadequacies. Every Hollywood attorney should just kill themselves. Now.



I drove down to Cincinnati to get a Dwin HD-700 working through a Moome 1.4 box (my first time playing with one of these), using a recent Onkyo receiver to switch between a Panasonic BluRay player, some new Cisco HD tuner for his cable service, and a computer video server that I've never heard of. But hey, I know the Dwin better than many, how tough could it BE, right?!!

The distance between my bed and the client's house apparently gave Murphy license to screw with me at every turn. I won't even talk about last week's visit, where the damn projector failed to respond to the usual prompts and tickles. At least it wasn't raining this week...and Curt's parts worked flawlessly when they arrived. Yay, Curt.


One of the modern digital video corollaries to that f*ck's law is the further the technician travels for the service call, the more likely the most unforeseen trouble will occur, or tangentially the least likely an intermittent issue will happen. This is nothing new to technicians, but more severe with digital...and mysteriously unexplainable. Inexplicable, had to fit that in here somehow. I'm collecting data to support this thesis, and this trip has been a treasure of new information. Frustrating research indeed.



Back to the job. In wild hopes of all the stars and planets aligning wiith the same wide-eyed wonder of every Lotto player, I connected everything...yet wasn't too surprised to find the Dwin yearning for a video signal. It shows a sad little message which wanders around the screen to avoid burn-in...Searching for Video Signal. <sigh>


Started with the Moome alone. Troubleshooting is always easier when you eliminate the other variables. Gave up three times before simply connecting the analog outputs of my Quantum Data generator to see at least SOME progress with the projector. I had to insure it was stable after the repairs...Curt had sent a new motherboard and power supply. It was OK, so I was able to return to the stubborn HDMI adapter box. I knew I simply needed to force it to output a negative sync for 720p and voila. Simple as that, right?!


Finally juggled enough combinations of dips inside the 1.4 box to make the Moome sync with the Dwin on the 480p and 1080i outputs of the generator. Went through the setup menu of the cable box and locked it into 720p, then got it to sync with the Moome and the Dwin. Yay. That took longer than I care to admit publicly.


At some point, I was finally able to get the whole thing to work with the 720p output of the generator, and really tweaked this projector for all it is worth. I've a great deal of time on this chassis, and know how to wring every last ounce of quality out of 'em. This one is another example of Edward Bagjian's brilliance and quality of manufacture...7000 hours, minimal wear on the tubes, and with my newfound ability to swap motherboards...I've come to a deeper appreciation of that old chain-smoker's engineering prowess.


After a very frustrating day, I finally decided to show the client why I was SO insistent on his electrician running the same phase between the projector power and the hifi system...which he misunderstood and allowed his electrician to shortcut some work so we had those annoying scrolling bands from the ground hum. Ran an extension cord to his APC power conditioner...and my mind was completely blown.


The image was SO much better...it defied description. I cannot place if it is due the conditioner, which I've seen make a huge difference in the past...but never consistently enough to force everyone to use 'em...OR from the dedicated circuits with the hospital-grade outlets and freshened ground connection.


But, the image was more fluid...with lower noise...and the scrolling hum bars gone, obviously, too. I sat there dumbfounded, as this HD-700 showing a 720p down-res'sed image from CABLE. I was eager to see what it would do with BluRay, but am at a loss for now why it won't play through the Moome card...either directly or through his Onkyo 875 or a Key Digital HDMI switcher.



There is more, but I've got to get back to work troubleshooting this mess...I cannot stay down here another day.


Cheers,
John
stuck in Cincinnati

[Gannon]

It just dawned on me, Curt, that I need a Dwin mod named after me.

We'll call it the first of hopefully many...let's reverse-wire the sync connections of all these internally at the BNC inputs. Simple fix to a vexing problem.

Tell everyone to lock their sources into 720p, and limit the screen width to under 7-feet...six even better.



This one is 77-inches wide, and is spectacular from 3 screen heights away. If it were MY room, I'd have another row at 2 heights...it is THAT compelling an image!



Cheers

[Gannon]

BTW, after feeding the power into the APC conditioner...this video quality is easily in the top twenty of images that I've ever personally calibrated.

I kid you not. Easily the best $2,000 video system...projector, wires, processor, screen, AND installation...that I can imagine. I could live with this system very happily.



Cheers

[Gannon]

We picked up a cheap Samsung BluRay player, and it works through both the Onkyo and Key Digital HDMI switchers...AFTER performing a firmware update.


But it still doesn't play through the Onkyo switcher alone. Odd. The Key Digital must be in place to pass the video to the Moome/Dwin combination.


The Onkyo menu will always play through the Moome, but it never passes video.


Did I tell you lately how much I hate HDMI/HDCP?!

[TheVerge]

Don't start modding dwin's, you'll make me have to go out and buy another.




HDCP is a complete bitch though. When it first came out they had strippers for sale in china, technically i think they are illegal but man i wish i had one.

[stefuel]

I'm curious, I've never seen a 500 or a 700 but why did Dwin go from a EM to a ES projection system?
That's kind of backwards from what everyone else was doing at the time.

[Gannon]

It was based upon the tubes he had available to him at the time...the short-throw ones with EM focus were discontinued. He didn't want to re-engineer the entire chassis, so made the choice to go with ES units instead.


I'm quite fond of 'em...

[TheVerge]

Pretty sharp for es really, significantly better than the 7 inch es tubes in my rptv.

[Curt Palme]

Those short throw EM focusing tubes in the DWIN were about as sharp as the EM focusing tubes in the NEC GP3000. IN other words, not very.

Every 700, no matter what the hours, ran circles around every DWIN 500 that I've ever seen. Barco uses the same ES focusing tubes in the 708 and Cine 7. Killer tubes. ALso discontinued now though, and $650 each from VDC.

[Curt Palme]

Those short throw EM focusing tubes in the DWIN were about as sharp as the EM focusing tubes in the NEC GP3000. IN other words, not very.

Every 700, no matter what the hours, ran circles around every DWIN 500 that I've ever seen. Barco uses the same ES focusing tubes in the 708 and Cine 7. Killer tubes. ALso discontinued now though, and $650 each from VDC.

[overclkr]

Gannon check your PM!

[stefuel]

[gjaky]

[barclay66]

[macgyver655]

[macgyver655]

Oh and also, a tube replacement by itself can make drastic improvements in PQ.

[Curt Palme]

In the case of the 500 (as with the NEC GP 3000 and 5000), it seemed to me that the issue was simply focusing. I just couldn't get the beam sharp. I would have loved to see any of those sets set up from new in the box, but they were before my time. I think in the day, the pix was still stunning, as the lack of detail in the 480i source material would mask what limitations the projectors had.

[Curt Palme]

In the case of the 500 (as with the NEC GP 3000 and 5000), it seemed to me that the issue was simply focusing. I just couldn't get the beam sharp. I would have loved to see any of those sets set up from new in the box, but they were before my time. I think in the day, the pix was still stunning, as the lack of detail in the 480i source material would mask what limitations the projectors had.

[barclay66]

[macgyver655]

[barclay66]

Ok,

You got me (no offense). In fact if you stay with the original resolution, you can get better results. I would assume that focus and/or light output could be better. I just went one step ahead (maybe too far): Humm, I now have high res tubes in my PJ and now I want to make it display high res material.
Just wanted to add a warning before someone would invest a lot of money for a mediocre result. But of course: Anything can be thought of in theory and if you have the stuff lying around that you need for trying it out, why not give it a shot? It even could be a lot of fun indeed!
Reminds me a little bit of the VW Beetles running on Porsche engines I've seen some years ago...

Regards,
barclay66

[macgyver655]