CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[WanMan]

Audiovox buys Klipsch

“The Klipsch brand is world-renowned and we believe Audiovox shareholders will benefit from the value of their unique market position, diversified customer base in home and professional channels, and their ongoing commitment to innovation."
- Audiovox CEO Patrick Lavelle

The name, Audiovox, never rang good notes to me and maybe this is due to my lack of information on this company. In fact, I only remember them on the shelves of retail stores for boom-boxes and whatnot. Taking a look at the wiki they oem for many names:

Acoustic Research
Advent
Audiovox
CarLink
Code-Alarm
Energizer
FlashLogic
Invision
Jensen
Phase Linear
Prestige
Pursuit
PursuiTrak
RCA
Surface Clean
Terk
Zentral Home Command

Still, I cannot see this as anything 'good' in the long run. Am I being paranoid?

[Curt Palme]

Yes, be paranoid. Mind you, what I've seen recently from Klipsch isn't great anyways. (as I write this I am listening to some Klipsch 'THX' 2.1 computer speakers that I got from the recycler. Better than the POS stock Dells I was using, but hardly Hifi...)

Seems like all the good brands are going under and the name is bought out. NOt sure if they are around anymore, but the company that bought the Akai name also bought the Nakamichi name. Saw them at CES in 2004, it was pure crap.

[Curt Palme]

Yes, be paranoid. Mind you, what I've seen recently from Klipsch isn't great anyways. (as I write this I am listening to some Klipsch 'THX' 2.1 computer speakers that I got from the recycler. Better than the POS stock Dells I was using, but hardly Hifi...)

Seems like all the good brands are going under and the name is bought out. NOt sure if they are around anymore, but the company that bought the Akai name also bought the Nakamichi name. Saw them at CES in 2004, it was pure crap.

[greg_mitch]

[akajester]

I helped someone install a system a few weeks ago. He bought a full set of Klipsch. One of the fronts had a horn not working. Opened it up to find the cable had pulled off, easy fix. I was bummed to see that the cable quality inside the speaker appeared to be 24 or 28 AWG. Is that normal?

Dale

[WanMan]

So, Klipsch may have gone the Bose route without the marketing success (to the dumb)? I guess if was onece sold by Tweeter/HiFi Buys then one should expect the worse.

[HogPilot]

I owned a Klipsch 5.0 system (sub was a Sunfire, and is the only part of that system I still own) - RF-7s/RC-7/RS-7 - back when that was Klipsch's top of the line. The build quality seemed good (survived 2 moves), and they actually looked pretty nice with the cherry wood veneer and dual copper-colored cerametallic woofers. They were also very efficient, so I could really blast them with my moderately powered Denon 2802 receiver. However I was never impressed with their imaging, frequency response, impulse response, or accuracy - they always seemed rather sloppy and smeared during critical listening. It didn't help that I upgraded to Dunlavy speakers, which are still known for being some of the most hyper-accurate and revealing speakers ever made (unfortunately the company went under in 2001). Ironically Dunlavy and Klipsch were good friends, even though they vehemently disagreed on many aspects of speaker design; even more entertaining is that, supposedly, hearing a pair of Klipsch's less-than-stellar speakers for the first time is what drove Dunlavy to get into the speaker design business way back when.

I think I sold my whole Klipsch set in 2007, and since then I've yet to hear a Klipsch speaker that doesn't have that same sloppy-but-lout quality. Apparently their THX system is quite good, but I have never heard one of those. Although I'm not a personal fan of their speakers, they are somewhat of an audio icon with some decent entry-level products, so it would be a shame if they did in fact end up going under.

[Curt Palme]

Sorry, but most of what I see is crap today. I took a set of 4 Energy speakers on trade, little 6" 2 ways. EVERYONE has dropped their quality, from speaker magnet size to cabinet construction to compete with the WalMarts of the world. The Energys had the tweeters more or less molded to the front of the cabinet. Very hard to repair/replace.

Recently I got in a set of Paradigms from the early 90s, a set of Infinitys from about the same time, and a set of Cerwin Vegas from the 80s. All better sounding and better built all around than anything new I've seen.

But let's face it, when our youth (damn, I sound OLD!) is listening to rap crap and Lady Gaga garbage that needs 50Hz and 6Khz to be reproduced.. .and that's about it while listening to it in MP3 format, just about anything will do.

[Curt Palme]

Sorry, but most of what I see is crap today. I took a set of 4 Energy speakers on trade, little 6" 2 ways. EVERYONE has dropped their quality, from speaker magnet size to cabinet construction to compete with the WalMarts of the world. The Energys had the tweeters more or less molded to the front of the cabinet. Very hard to repair/replace.

Recently I got in a set of Paradigms from the early 90s, a set of Infinitys from about the same time, and a set of Cerwin Vegas from the 80s. All better sounding and better built all around than anything new I've seen.

But let's face it, when our youth (damn, I sound OLD!) is listening to rap crap and Lady Gaga garbage that needs 50Hz and 6Khz to be reproduced.. .and that's about it while listening to it in MP3 format, just about anything will do.

[HogPilot]

I agree there's a lot of crap out there, but companies like Ascend Acoustics are proof that there are people out there looking to release quality speakers at what most here would consider to be a very reasonable price. And Curt, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about most kids/people these days listening to crap music with crap quality. As long as it thumps and has those bright tinny highs, who cares about the content?

[Curt Palme]

Oh yeah, there's still good stuff out there, it's just sad to see the 'old', 'reputable' brand names going down the toilet.

Funny, at the local restaurant where I get coffee every morning, I overheard another regular commenting how he bought something electronic by Magnavox, so 'it had to be good'.

I cringed and walked on...

[Curt Palme]

Oh yeah, there's still good stuff out there, it's just sad to see the 'old', 'reputable' brand names going down the toilet.

Funny, at the local restaurant where I get coffee every morning, I overheard another regular commenting how he bought something electronic by Magnavox, so 'it had to be good'.

I cringed and walked on...

[Ron W]

[Spanky Ham]

Mmmmmmmmmmm, Canadian speakers! I owned my PSB Stratus Golds for eight years. Well worth the money. As Greg said, DIY is where it is at. I A/Bed my Stratus Golds with the HTguide Dayton RSes. The Daytons were equal if not better with a material cost of around $500.

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[WanMan]

The problem with DIY is that not everyone is skilled, nor interested, in consuming time to build their own speakers. And 'trust' is a big issue in trying to determine who to get to build you something as well as trust in your own ears. BTW, when was the last time you could trust globally to buy a 5.1 system from a DIY builder? And when I check around those small companies being identified as making good product were not cheap, nor local. So, trust AND money are the issues.

For instance, who in Georgia, eastern Alabama, SW South Carolina, Tennessee or north Florida is known for making good, reasonable priced custom speakers? And especially those designed for theaters (as opposed to music)?

[greg_mitch]

[Curt Palme]

A couple of counterpoints though:

-speakers are the most insanely subjective pieces of your stereo system. What sounds good to one person sounds like crap to another.

-build quality aside, as long as you use speakers within their intended parameters, even the cheapie made in China specials should last years, as should the white van speakers. The Energys I bitched about above were in a townhouse party room, and had the crap cranked out of them repeatedly. They are made like crap now, and for someone like me that can't hammer a nail in straight, DIY woodworking is out of the question.

If you don't like what you see in the stores, hit CL for some older speakers in good shape. Speakers devalue like crazy save for some vintage ones that are usually overpriced, but in the last week I've gotten a pair of Luxmans, Infinitys and a pair of Paradigms at the recycler. All good speakers, all needed nothing but a cleaning. I can't sell them for anything, but I'm setting up some new speaker systems in my shop, so I'll use all of them.

[Curt Palme]

A couple of counterpoints though:

-speakers are the most insanely subjective pieces of your stereo system. What sounds good to one person sounds like crap to another.

-build quality aside, as long as you use speakers within their intended parameters, even the cheapie made in China specials should last years, as should the white van speakers. The Energys I bitched about above were in a townhouse party room, and had the crap cranked out of them repeatedly. They are made like crap now, and for someone like me that can't hammer a nail in straight, DIY woodworking is out of the question.

If you don't like what you see in the stores, hit CL for some older speakers in good shape. Speakers devalue like crazy save for some vintage ones that are usually overpriced, but in the last week I've gotten a pair of Luxmans, Infinitys and a pair of Paradigms at the recycler. All good speakers, all needed nothing but a cleaning. I can't sell them for anything, but I'm setting up some new speaker systems in my shop, so I'll use all of them.

[Spanky Ham]

Curt,
I agree that speakers are subjective, but most people can hear the difference between crap and good. The problem is when you go from good to audiophile.

You are also correct on finding good deals. There are a lot of great deals to be had by researching and looking around. I couldn't use my PSBs anymore and ended up selling them locally in Atlanta for $450. That was a great deal for the buyer. I was fine with it, because like I said earlier the DIY Daytons are just as good and I can build them for roughly the same price.


You guys and DIY. It isn't easy to go DIY, but it isn't hard either. There are options from no skills to the person who can do everything themselves. For building the cabinets, that is easy. Look up or post on CL for a cabinet maker willing to build speaker cabinets. I bet one could get custom cabinets, in whatever fiinish you prefer, made for a pretty good price. As for the crossover, I would hope you could put that together yourself Curt. For the rest, an electronic shop can do the work or even easier is the pre-built crossovers that come with kits.
If I had a permanent place, then I would probably go with Zaph's DIY speakers. The two way should be easily made for around $150 a speaker. I think that would represent good bang for the buck.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=186&products_id=8648

[wowchad]

I know this thread has strayed but I have to put in a plug for the earlier Klipsch stuff like KLF 20's, KLF 30's and C-7 center when they still made them here in the US. I held onto my KLF 20's all these years and now looking at matching them I was`very surprised at their resale value. Same with the old Klipsch horns, they're still getting $4000+
I've always loved the sound of their horns!
Mid to late `90's pre best buy etc they were making decent speakers.

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[wowchad]

Curt that's crazy that he was able to tweak the room to the point of making crap speakers sound THAT good!

BTW has anyone ever heard a pair of Von Schweikert speakers in person? All it took was once for me and I was hooked!

I'm currently running Energy Connoisseur series in the upstairs (main) listening room but they are up for sale because I have a pair of VR-4 MKII sitting in the box just waiting to come home!
(Plus matching surrounds and a Von center)
Some silly guy in Chicago sold them to me for around $1200 a couple years ago when I first started working on the addition.
(I can't believe how much time has passed without any A/V in my house)

I'm still leaning toward running my good 'ol Klipsch speakers in the new basement HT. I'd like to find a matching pair of KLF 30's for my mains and use my 20's for rear surrounds or find KLF 10's for the rear and run my 20's as mains I guess.

[Curt Palme]

It was partly room tweaking, he had matte black curtains all around, but really, when you're watching Bikini Destinations for the first time in HD, who really is paying attention to the sound?

Point is twofold really.

1), Save for the dialogue, movie soundtracks are hardly critical for speakers. By that I mean that movie soundtracks are pretty processed so that even HTIB cheapie speakers sound good. What sounds good for movies usually doesn't sound good for a reference system for 2 channel audio and vice versa.

2) With a dead room, almost anything can sound good. I found long ago in high school that Boston's first album sounded effing GREAT through 8" 2 way speakers... with 200 watts RMS behind them. 10 watt speakers, cone tweeter, but with piles of headroom behind them, at the time they sounded fantastic.

Again, sound is so subjective with too many variables attached to it that I don't think you can argue what sounds good and what sounds bad on a forum. I'm far from an acoustical expert, but I do know some basics.

The best argument I ever heard from a pro sound guy that knew what he was doing was:

'You go to any stereo store and buy a $2000 set of speakers. I will take $200 and go to Radio Shack and a lumber store, and I'll build a set of speakers that will sound better than what you bought in the store'.

If you know enough about speaker building, I think the above statement can hold true today, but exchange the words 'Parts Express' with the words 'Radio Shack'.

[Curt Palme]

It was partly room tweaking, he had matte black curtains all around, but really, when you're watching Bikini Destinations for the first time in HD, who really is paying attention to the sound?

Point is twofold really.

1), Save for the dialogue, movie soundtracks are hardly critical for speakers. By that I mean that movie soundtracks are pretty processed so that even HTIB cheapie speakers sound good. What sounds good for movies usually doesn't sound good for a reference system for 2 channel audio and vice versa.

2) With a dead room, almost anything can sound good. I found long ago in high school that Boston's first album sounded effing GREAT through 8" 2 way speakers... with 200 watts RMS behind them. 10 watt speakers, cone tweeter, but with piles of headroom behind them, at the time they sounded fantastic.

Again, sound is so subjective with too many variables attached to it that I don't think you can argue what sounds good and what sounds bad on a forum. I'm far from an acoustical expert, but I do know some basics.

The best argument I ever heard from a pro sound guy that knew what he was doing was:

'You go to any stereo store and buy a $2000 set of speakers. I will take $200 and go to Radio Shack and a lumber store, and I'll build a set of speakers that will sound better than what you bought in the store'.

If you know enough about speaker building, I think the above statement can hold true today, but exchange the words 'Parts Express' with the words 'Radio Shack'.