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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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kal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO the DVDs of Ep. 4/5/6 were horrible and nothing to write home about. It seemed they just took whatever they had in the can and ported it directly to DVD with nobody surpervising. Ok, they paid someone to make some menus, but it appears there was little to no budget for oversight or making sure the transfers and compressing went well. A money grab.
I've been pretty pessimistic about these Blu-ray releases as I expect the same, but what I've read recently over the last few days leaves my hopefully optimistic. Seems they really do want to make these discs "right".
Yes, they've change a bunch of things but for the most part I'd say they're "fixes" and not meddling just because they can.
I'd call them the 2004 versions - "fixed". They're not the originals. Give up waiting for those. They won't appear (IMHO).
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Kal
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Kal, I'm seeing this a lot with BD releases of movies from the 1980's. I have considered several BD purchases this year of 80's movies, only to put a hold on them as the video quality is less than 4 stars (out of 5). It just seems like Hollywood has decided that some movies should get the 'worse than DVD' treatment.
I doubt I'll buy into these kinds of mis-efforts until they reach well below the $9.99 mark.
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kal
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 334
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently Eps. 4-6 are the same 2K Lowry restorations used for the 2004 DVD.
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AVStefan
Old setup: HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
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ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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DID THEY FIX ANY OF THE SCRIPTS ON THE NEWER FILMS!!????
*sigh*
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisWiggles wrote: | DID THEY FIX ANY OF THE SCRIPTS ON THE NEWER FILMS!!????
*sigh* |
Haha, classic! I think the statement about polishing a turd applies to this situation... 
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He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Seems that our desires are akin to American politics. Lose All Hope.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | IMHO the DVDs of Ep. 4/5/6 were horrible and nothing to write home about. It seemed they just took whatever they had in the can and ported it directly to DVD with nobody surpervising. Ok, they paid someone to make some menus, but it appears there was little to no budget for oversight or making sure the transfers and compressing went well. A money grab.
I've been pretty pessimistic about these Blu-ray releases as I expect the same, but what I've read recently over the last few days leaves my hopefully optimistic. Seems they really do want to make these discs "right".
Yes, they've change a bunch of things but for the most part I'd say they're "fixes" and not meddling just because they can.
I'd call them the 2004 versions - "fixed". They're not the originals. Give up waiting for those. They won't appear (IMHO).
Click here to order and support our site!: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ZSJ212?tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&link_code=as3&creativeASIN=B003ZSJ212&creative=373489&camp=211189
Kal |
Some of the alterations are rather harmless; fixing the Wampa (Ice Creature) from ESB and making the Ewok's eyes blink are immaterial. Having Darth Vader yell "No,no,no!" before tossing the Emperor down the tower shaft is total BS...
BTW, there is no excuse for these transfer not being top notch. After all they are transferring from the restored interpositive negative from the Special Editions in 1997 not some deteriorating 30-yr old film stock.
These are my favorite films of all time and the reason why I embraced home theater..
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kal
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. I'm all for fixing little issues (removing scratches, removing the puppeteer's arm, etc) but things like not having Han shoot Greedo in cold blood or having Vader scream "No" really changes their character I find.
But hey, no point in complaining. What's done is done. With a JEDI-like wave of my hand: "These are no longer the movies we are looking for."
Kal
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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So, Vader becomes a child have a temper tantrum?
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Having Darth Vader yell "No,no,no!" before tossing the Emperor down the tower shaft is total BS... |
Umm,
Received my box today and watched Episode VI. Of course it reduces the tension (what will Vader be doing now???) but for those who already know, the change is not too bad and emphasizes his change of mind. But of course this is only my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to his or her own.
Although overall picture quality is great I'm disappointed that some scenes deserving a fix didn't get any.
For example the two-legged walkers (AT-ST) on endor still look as cheesy as they ever did. Especially when the one gets smashed by two wooden trunks.
Another example is the scene where Lando and his comrades fly into the death star. The following tie fighters still have glowing boxes around them.
But hey, everything is fine to me as long as they don't continue adding CG creatures at all places (especially those resembling Jar Jar Binks) 
Have fun!
barclay66
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get the "No,no,no".
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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It's said by Vader just before he grabs the Emperor and lifts him over his head...
Edit: That applies to the German dubbed version, which I watched first...
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | I don't get the "No,no,no". |
he yells NOooooo in Ep-3 when he steps out of the Vader-izer so it adds conitinuity. 
I just hope Ep-1 doesn't look like total sh*t anymore, it's the ones my boys keep asking for and I keep saying" lets wait for the blue ray". Now I've run out of excuses, they were sitting on the shelf at Block Bust last night. 
Last edited by draganm on Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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Location: Fort Collins, CO
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kal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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My movies are in the mail! Can't wait to give them a spin!
Star Wars: The Complete Saga (Episodes I-VI) [Blu-ray] (1977)
(Click on picture to order, hover over for price)
| Quote: | Well, it's finally here. What else is there to say that hasn't been said already? Yes, we all want to have the option of watching the unaltered theatrical editions, but it doesn't look like those are coming any time soon. Until then, this is the definitive high definition set of 'Star Wars.' The set we'd been waiting years for is finally here. While the video presentations waver a bit, the audio presentations are rock solid, producing rocking demo-material for any sound system out there. There are so many special features it will take you weeks to finish them all off. This set comes highly recommended.
The Video: Sizing Up the Picture
I thought this would be as good a place as any to list some of the much more noticeable visual changes that the 'Star Wars' films have undergone for this Blu-ray release. Some of the changes are minor, some not so much. If there are noticeable visual changes that have been tweaked by Lucas then they are listed right before each review in a bullet point.
'Episode I: The Phantom Menace'
The puppet Yoda has been replaced with a CGI Yoda which matches the one found in episode II and III. This is one of the only changes that makes sense to me.
Who would have thought that one of the prequels would end up being the worst looking one of the bunch? I didn't. Still 'Episode I' is a DNR'd mess of waxy faces, flat shadows, and murky colors.
It looks extremely dated, and in HD even more so. Almost every face in the movie is devoid of any real fine detail. Pores have been scrubbed away. Hair comes to us in giant matted masses instead of standing out individually. Blacks are flat and at times take on a bluish tint. They have no depth to them. Crushing is a standard offender, swallowing up faces, textures, and characters.
At the timestamp of 50:28 there's an extremely ugly shift in the blackness of the sky above Qui-Gon. It shifts very noticeably almost like unfinished animation is suspended above him. Very ugly. As for noise, I didn't notice any really. It's just the incessant DNR, and general flatness that really bring this presentation down.
3 Stars
'Episode II: Attack of the Clones'
There's a noticeable improvement from 'Phantom Menace' here. It still isn't perfect, because the picture looks like it's taken on some post-production softening that hampers overall detail. I still caught a few instances of waxy-like faces here and there, but nothing as bad as 'Phantom.'
The big improvement here is the much better looking CG. It still hasn't hit the grand look of 'Revenge of the Sith' but it's getting there. Individual hairs are now noticeable. The woven texture in Mace Windu's Jedi cloak, for instance, is visible. Blacks take on more substance here. They aren't just flat pieces of color swallowing up scenery. There are some blacks that exist in mid-range photography that are pretty unforgiving, but for the most part the blacks here are well resolved. A good example of this is in the nightclub scene when Anakin and Obi-Wan chase the bounty hunter. Crushing is still evident though, especially in the scene where Anakin and Padme sit in the room with a burning fire. Detail is lost as the shadows around them become less delineated than the other shadows we saw earlier in the movie.
Overall though, it isn't up to snuff. It's hampered by noticeable DNR. Not as much as the episode before it, but it's noticeable all the same.
3.5 Stars
'Episode III: Revenge of the Sith'
This is perhaps the best looking movie of the entire set. I was pretty blown away by the visuals here, and wondered why the two prequels before it couldn't look this good. Noise reduction seems to have been done away with. It's immediately noticeable on the faces of the actors. They aren't smeary or waxy anymore. Pores are visible. Individual hairs from heads and beards stand out perfectly. Notice the faint bumpy texture of the wall next to R2-D2 when he's fixing the elevator on the ship. This is the kind of detail I was expecting from these movies and we're finally getting it.
Explosions here are brighter, more vibrant. Oranges and reds are their own beasts. In the first two movies those colors sort of blended together. However, the contrast here is magnificent, particularly on the lava planet at the end.
Blacks are their deepest in this film, shadows are well delineated. Fine detail is optimally resolved. The CGI presented is top-notch. Even though it's far from being the best movie of the set, Episode III is definitely the best looking.
5 Stars
'Episode IV: A New Hope'
Digital rocks have been added, for some unexplained reason, in front of R2 while he's hiding in a cave. After R2 leaves the cave, those rocks aren't there anymore.
The underside of Luke's Speeder actually looks good.
Escape pod lid is now black instead of blue.
Death Star explosion has been color corrected and actually looks much better. It doesn't have the bright blue ring around it anymore.
We've spent so much time talking about the asinine changes that have been made to the original trilogy that we've failed to mention some of the visual changes that actually helped. I really like the color fix on the Death Star explosion. It doesn't look so amateurish anymore. The glowing blue noisy border is all but gone, replaced with a clearer, cleaner explosion.
Sadly, DNR rears its head here and there, during 'A New Hope.' It isn't as rampant as 'Phantom,' but it's enough to take stock and realize that maybe Leia's face looks a little too smooth. Check out the waxy, smooth faces that exist in the hallway scene right before they blast their way down to the trash compactor. Grain freezes every now and then, it can be spotted suspended around R2 as he roams the desert. There is some very noticeable problems with flickering and slight color timing changes as C-3PO walks across the desert.
Fine detail wavers a bit, depending on the amount of noise reduction being used. Facial detail is noticeable right at the beginning on the Rebel Guards before Vader storms in. Close-ups really are the only shots that harbor such detail though. I thought that the dirt and grime on R2's casing looked great though. That was some well resolved detail that I'd never really noticed before.
The special edition CG additions really bring the video presentation down a notch because they're already dated. The added Stormtrooper scene along with the Jabba/Han scene, aren't doing this Blu-ray version of the movie any favors. The CG is flat and has the look of early CG animation. Like I said before, if they want to keep changing stuff, how about sprucing up the stuff that looks old and outdated instead of just adding in things here and there.
With all that said, I personally thought that 'A New Hope' looked better than both 'Attack of the Clones' and 'Phantom Menace.' It has its problems, but after all was said and done I was fairly satisfied with the way it was presented.
4 Stars
'Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back'
A few scenes have undergone color correction. Cold bluish hues have been replaced with warmer ones. This is especially noticeable when Chewy is searching for the driods.
When Obi-Wan appears it's more visible this time around.
Hoth's snow looks less blue, and has taken on a whiter more natural look, which is a big improvement actually.
The color timing changing on the snow, even though it's slight, makes a big difference when it comes to seeing the speeders against the background. It's actually one of the unsung, enjoyable changes to these Blu-ray editions.
DNR seems to have taken a backseat here, which is a very good thing. Fine detail makes a reemergence as facial details shine. Edge enhancement is light, and pretty much negligible. Textures on clothing are marvelously rendered here. This is texture that we have likely not seen in any of the other releases of these films. Take note of Chewbacca's individual hairs, or the furry whiteness of the Wampa.
Blacks are deep and satisfying. Shadows and the edges thereof, are easy to discern. This is the way that I think we all pictured these classic films looking. Now that's not to say this one is perfect either. Noise crops up every now and then. There are some minor frozen grain issues on Hoth, but if you're not looking closely for them I don't think you'll be able to spot them. This is my favorite transfer in the Original Trilogy.
4.5 Stars
'Episode VI: Return of the Jedi'
Jabba's Palace door has been replaced with a much larger CGI one.
Han Solo's carbonite thawing is now CGI. This is one of the dumber changes. As it stands now, the thawing looks silly. Light surrounds Hans and shoots out from his face, hand, and body. It's almost as cheesy as an angel awaking from slumber.
A CGI Dug has been added to the steps of Jabba's Palace for no discernible reason at all.
The Ewoks do indeed have digital blinking eyes.
When R2 has his freakout, a whole load of gadgets have been added to the picture, more steam coming from inside, and the leaking has been digitally erased. Pretty poorly I might add.
Okay, now we're back into the "Why in the world did they do that," area. Why they felt like they needed to add in even more wacky things popping in and out of R2-D2 when he has his freakout at around the 2:14:40 mark is beyond me. Why they felt like crudely erasing the liquid coming out of him is crazy. That scene looks like an amateur went to work with a crappy version of Photoshop. It really does.
I'm also not a huge fan of the new CGI Han Solo carbonite thaw. It's really tacky especially at the end where he never used to have any light surrounding him. Now it's bursting forth from all sides. It looks really cheesy and unnecessary. To make matters worse, the new radiant light is chock-full of ugly, unsightly banding.
Besides the radical changes, the rest of the movie looks great. Even Endor seems like it's taken on a richer green hue. Detail on the Ewok costumes looks great as you can see individual hairs. Blacks can be crushing at times, particularly the scene where Leia sneaks in and thaws Han. However, I felt like these unnecessary changes were not annoying to fans because of the changes, but they hurt the overall product by being shoddy and way too noticeable. Add to that extremely creepy Ewok blinking eyes and they certainly bring this visual presentation down a peg or two.
3.5 Stars
The Audio: Rating the Sound
The audio on this set is outstanding. I'm just going to put that out there right now. It's one of the best examples of complete sound remastering for an entire catalog set that I've ever heard. Each one of these episodes is full of bright, bold action surrounding you from every side. These are engrossing soundtracks that really almost equal each other in greatness. There were a few minor changes in quality it seemed, but overall they really seemed to stick close together in terms of quality. Each movie got the same mix, which really helped keep the cohesiveness together.
'Episode I: The Phantom Menace'
The video may stink, but the audio does anything but. As much as I hate podracing, and I think that whole part of the movie should be removed, I can't deny that it sounds great in this newly minted 6.1 DTS-HD Master Audio mix. The roaring sounds of the podracers surround you, and pummel you into submission. The LFE roars from the sub with stunning force. Panning effects are insanely smooth as racers fly from one end of the screen to the other.
Unfortunately for us, dialogue is perfectly intelligible so we hear every "Weesa," "Heesa," and "Yousa." Eff you Jar Jar. Young Anakin is no different, but at least the mix treats his voice exactly the same as anyone else. Other audio highlights here include the low-end sound made by the water after Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan descend to the Gungan city and the sound of the uniformed droid marching.
4.5 Stars
'Episode II: Attack of the Clones'
So as to not repeat myself from 'The Phantom Menace' audio discussion, 'Attack of the Clones' has the very same pros about it. Clean, intelligible dialogue. Well-rounded sound stage featuring that ever iconic John Williams score. Again, everything is done right here.
A few highlights that I noticed during 'Attack of the Clones' that you'll want to keep your ears peeled for are the absolute gut-crushing booms made by Jango Fett's seismic charges or the earth-rattling scene where one of the Federation starships comes crashing back down to the ground. That scene engulfs you and sucks you in. It's one of the best sounding scenes in the whole set. I also loved the hustle and bustle of the surrounds when Padme and Anakin are jumping around trying to dodge the different robotic arms on the conveyer belt. There's so much going on in that droid factory and yet you're able to hear it all. I may have liked this audio presentation just a little more than 'Phantom Menace.' I might be biased just because I dislike 'Phantom' so much, but so be it. This one is demo material through and through.
5 Stars
'Episode III: Revenge of the Sith'
'Sith' shares all the wonderful characteristics of the films that have gone before it when it comes to the audio department. The opening dogfight battle is intoxicating. There's a cacophony of sound and action happening all at once, but the six separate channels are able to capture it all. Fighters whiz all around your head, panning smoothly from one channel to the other.
Williams' score sweeps through the design, just like it did with the other films, totally engulfing you in its presence. LFE is a constant threat to shake the pictures right off your walls. When the characters find themselves on Mustafar the low-end of the spectrum goes crazy as the explosions and swelling of lava simply surrounds you on every side. Another demo-worthy audio experience.
5 Stars
'Episode IV: A New Hope'
After watching the prequels first, I did notice an inherent change in the way the sound was presented. The iconic opening music had brasher horns which were just a tad bit louder than they had been in the past. Music and blaster sounds were given slightly more prioritization than dialogue. I didn't feel like 'A New Hope' lived up to the demo-material goodness set by the last two prequels.
That said, 'A New Hope' is no slouch. Considering its age, this sounds great, and the newly minted DTS- HD Master Audio track adds more oomph to this movie than you ever thought possible. Blasters, while they may be a little on the loud side, fill the air with whizzing beams of light which explode with tenacious ferocity. Lightsabers clash together to form a low-end thump that sounds great every time. Panning effects sound wonderful here too as ships and speeders cruise from one end of the frame to the other. To tell you the truth, I didn't ever think that the original movies would sound this good.
4.5 Stars
'Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back'
The LFE takes over here. Whether it's the stomping thuds of approaching AT-ATs or the thunderous soaring of the Empire's Destroyers, bass is non-stop here. It rattles, thumps, and wallops its way through the entire movie. The only LFE downtime is when we visit Luke on Endor. Other than that the sub is fully engaged during the different action-packed exploits of Han and his rag-tag crew.
I thought that dialogue was given a bit more prioritization here, along with nicely placed directionality. The deep booming voice of James Earl Jones has a nice resounding low-end whoosh to it. This is everything you could want, and more. Demo material!
5 Stars
'Episode VI: Return of the Jedi'
Yes, the new addition of Vader yelling "Noooooo!" at the end is a real bother. So much so that it degrades the rest of the movie. Everything is building up until that moment and then… well, you get the picture. Adding that "Nooooo!" should be figured into the audio scoring just as much as the visual additions should.
Other than that stupid add-on, the rest of the movie sounds just as terrific as the rest of the set. I particularly liked the feeling of the surrounds in this one. Whether it be the echoing roars of the Rancor or the happy chirps of the Ewoks, the surrounds picked up every nuance of the sound design. 'Empire' may blow you away with its thundering bass, but 'Jedi' will wow you with its attention to detail. Listening to those speeders blow through the forest, trees whapping by on both sides, was a fantastically engrossing experience.
4.5 Stars |
Kal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 'Episode I: The Phantom Menace'
As much as I hate podracing, and I think that whole part of the movie should be removed, I can't deny that it sounds great in this newly minted 6.1 DTS-HD Master Audio mix. |
the pod race is all my kids talk about. They don't seem to mind the stupid muppet show at all
| Quote: | | Unfortunately for us, dialogue is perfectly intelligible so we hear every "Weesa," "Heesa," and "Yousa." Eff you Jar Jar. |
LOL, the hatred for jar-jar never ends. I still think it would be F-in hillarious if he got his head lopped off with a light-saber and it went spinning through the air with his ears pin-wheeling along. THAT would have been a great change to make and my kids would have loved it too.
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