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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | how is the 6 pole stig going to work in the marquee?
don`t you need an extra stig amp for that? |
I would assume so.
| dvh99 wrote: | | the 6 pole is for final shaping of the electron beam, does this connection need a lower voltage applied to it? |
No idea!
Steve
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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sure fun to follow this further.
mike uses the br909 coils as you know, but he hasn`t connected the 6 pole stig afaik.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | Okay, finally got a chance to put the Sencore on these yokes to get precise inductance measurements of all the coils. Strangely enough, my audio analyzer was really close on the values for the dynamic and stig coils, but was totally wrong on the static focus coil. The Sencore measured 43 mH for the Sony static focus coil, much closer to the 33 mH value for the Marquee's, which makes sense given the 70 ohms of DCR for the Sony coil, as Scott pointed out.
Scott, please review my drawing. I labeled the coils based on your earlier replies and updated the inductance values with the Sencore measured ones.
Do you think all these coils could be connected as-is to the same purpose connections on the Marquee, or do the stig coils need to be rewound? I'd actually be willing to do that, if you think it's needed. And de-wind the static and dynamic windings, if also needed.
One step closer to getting these put in my hot-rodded MP9!
Thanks!
Steve |
That all looks pretty good. I think it is worth a try. The polarity of the dynamic and static windings are important. If the sides are way out or the top is way out of focus try reversing the polarity of the dynamic (sides) or static (top and bottom). Stigs really don't matter as they can adjust in both directions.
It is good to ground one end of unused windings as they will pick up a static charge when HV goes up or down and can arc to important stuff, like you.
Scott
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | Okay, finally got a chance to put the Sencore on these yokes to get precise inductance measurements of all the coils. Strangely enough, my audio analyzer was really close on the values for the dynamic and stig coils, but was totally wrong on the static focus coil. The Sencore measured 43 mH for the Sony static focus coil, much closer to the 33 mH value for the Marquee's, which makes sense given the 70 ohms of DCR for the Sony coil, as Scott pointed out.
Scott, please review my drawing. I labeled the coils based on your earlier replies and updated the inductance values with the Sencore measured ones.
Do you think all these coils could be connected as-is to the same purpose connections on the Marquee, or do the stig coils need to be rewound? I'd actually be willing to do that, if you think it's needed. And de-wind the static and dynamic windings, if also needed.
One step closer to getting these put in my hot-rodded MP9!
Thanks!
Steve |
That all looks pretty good. I think it is worth a try. The polarity of the dynamic and static windings are important. If the sides are way out or the top is way out of focus try reversing the polarity of the dynamic (sides) or static (top and bottom). Stigs really don't matter as they can adjust in both directions.
It is good to ground one end of unused windings as they will pick up a static charge when HV goes up or down and can arc to important stuff, like you.
Scott |
Noted on the polarity issue - will keep in mind when I try one out.
When you get a chance, take a look at the last drawing (the one that has the two yoke schematics side by side) I posted and my comments regarding the substantial difference on the 4-pole stig coils inductance. Do you think the values of the Sony's coils will pull too much current from the Marquee's stig circuits
Much thanks!
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | sure fun to follow this further.
mike uses the br909 coils as you know, but he hasn`t connected the 6 pole stig afaik. |
Didn't know Mike used the 909 yokes. I wonder how they compare to the G90?
Steve
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | | the 6 pole is for final shaping of the electron beam, does this connection need a lower voltage applied to it? |
Hi,
a look into the BR909 service manual shows me that the amplifier circuit for the 6-pole Dynamic Asigmator is identical to the one for the 4-Pole. Same STK 392-110 with the same supply of 30Volt. Therefore you can expect the same voltages on the outputs as long as the controller won't produce different signals for its inputs.
Regards,
barclay66
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | | dvh99 wrote: | sure fun to follow this further.
mike uses the br909 coils as you know, but he hasn`t connected the 6 pole stig afaik. |
Didn't know Mike used the 909 yokes. I wonder how they compare to the G90?
Steve |
i do too, get these coils up and running and report back s`il vous plaît.
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marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | | tse wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | Okay, finally got a chance to put the Sencore on these yokes to get precise inductance measurements of all the coils. Strangely enough, my audio analyzer was really close on the values for the dynamic and stig coils, but was totally wrong on the static focus coil. The Sencore measured 43 mH for the Sony static focus coil, much closer to the 33 mH value for the Marquee's, which makes sense given the 70 ohms of DCR for the Sony coil, as Scott pointed out.
Scott, please review my drawing. I labeled the coils based on your earlier replies and updated the inductance values with the Sencore measured ones.
Do you think all these coils could be connected as-is to the same purpose connections on the Marquee, or do the stig coils need to be rewound? I'd actually be willing to do that, if you think it's needed. And de-wind the static and dynamic windings, if also needed.
One step closer to getting these put in my hot-rodded MP9!
Thanks!
Steve |
That all looks pretty good. I think it is worth a try. The polarity of the dynamic and static windings are important. If the sides are way out or the top is way out of focus try reversing the polarity of the dynamic (sides) or static (top and bottom). Stigs really don't matter as they can adjust in both directions.
It is good to ground one end of unused windings as they will pick up a static charge when HV goes up or down and can arc to important stuff, like you.
Scott |
Noted on the polarity issue - will keep in mind when I try one out.
When you get a chance, take a look at the last drawing (the one that has the two yoke schematics side by side) I posted and my comments regarding the substantial difference on the 4-pole stig coils inductance. Do you think the values of the Sony's coils will pull too much current from the Marquee's stig circuits
Much thanks!
Steve |
All of the focus (stig) amplifiers as well as the convergence and vertical deflection amplifiers output current. If the amplifier input is telling it to output, say, 0.1A then the output will be 0.1A irregardless of the load (coil). One could replace the stig coil with a piece of wire (0uH), a 50uH coil, or a 150uH coil and the output would be 0.1A for all.
The difference would be in the magnetic field produced. 1/2 x L (inductance) x I^2 (current squared) = magnetic field strength. So given the same current the 50uH coils would have about 1/3 the magnetic field strength of the 150uH coils. The Marquee stig amps have more than enough output capability with Thomson mags so might drive the Sony coils ok.
Scott
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | | tse wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | Okay, finally got a chance to put the Sencore on these yokes to get precise inductance measurements of all the coils. Strangely enough, my audio analyzer was really close on the values for the dynamic and stig coils, but was totally wrong on the static focus coil. The Sencore measured 43 mH for the Sony static focus coil, much closer to the 33 mH value for the Marquee's, which makes sense given the 70 ohms of DCR for the Sony coil, as Scott pointed out.
Scott, please review my drawing. I labeled the coils based on your earlier replies and updated the inductance values with the Sencore measured ones.
Do you think all these coils could be connected as-is to the same purpose connections on the Marquee, or do the stig coils need to be rewound? I'd actually be willing to do that, if you think it's needed. And de-wind the static and dynamic windings, if also needed.
One step closer to getting these put in my hot-rodded MP9!
Thanks!
Steve |
That all looks pretty good. I think it is worth a try. The polarity of the dynamic and static windings are important. If the sides are way out or the top is way out of focus try reversing the polarity of the dynamic (sides) or static (top and bottom). Stigs really don't matter as they can adjust in both directions.
It is good to ground one end of unused windings as they will pick up a static charge when HV goes up or down and can arc to important stuff, like you.
Scott |
Noted on the polarity issue - will keep in mind when I try one out.
When you get a chance, take a look at the last drawing (the one that has the two yoke schematics side by side) I posted and my comments regarding the substantial difference on the 4-pole stig coils inductance. Do you think the values of the Sony's coils will pull too much current from the Marquee's stig circuits
Much thanks!
Steve |
All of the focus (stig) amplifiers as well as the convergence and vertical deflection amplifiers output current. If the amplifier input is telling it to output, say, 0.1A then the output will be 0.1A irregardless of the load (coil). One could replace the stig coil with a piece of wire (0uH), a 50uH coil, or a 150uH coil and the output would be 0.1A for all.
The difference would be in the magnetic field produced. 1/2 x L (inductance) x I^2 (current squared) = magnetic field strength. So given the same current the 50uH coils would have about 1/3 the magnetic field strength of the 150uH coils. The Marquee stig amps have more than enough output capability with Thomson mags so might drive the Sony coils ok.
Scott |
A busy work week and I forget to check in as frequently as I should.
I habitually assume amps/drivers such as the ones we are dealing with here are voltage sources and that current varies with load impedance. I understand your explanation about how these stig amps are current sources instead. So, got it... It won't be a burden on the Marquee circuits, just maybe not enough resulting magnetic field. Well, I'll have to give them a whirl this weekend and see what goes down.
One more thing - what should be done with the thermistor? Okay to leave disconnected?
Much thanks,
Steve
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zGman
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: |
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""One more thing - what should be done with the thermistor? Okay to leave disconnected? ""
Short answer yes. Have tried putting thermistors in 1292 coil housings, have tried
just running 10k Ohm resistors at connector, and have tried nothing at all. Can't
see a change.
G
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| zGman wrote: | ""One more thing - what should be done with the thermistor? Okay to leave disconnected? ""
Short answer yes. Have tried putting thermistors in 1292 coil housings, have tried
just running 10k Ohm resistors at connector, and have tried nothing at all. Can't
see a change.
G |
Very good, nice to know. I'm going to try these out this weekend! The wife's out of town so I have plenty of time to fiddle.
Thanks,
Steve
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zGman
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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There is on the 1292 coils a ground wire that is tied to the outside of the magnets.
It is a good idea to tie this to ground, to avoid build up of staic charge. it is also
a good idea to tie the metal clamp to ground. and Scott mentioned grounding the un-used
stig coils. You will be amazed how quickly a high static voltage can buildup on these
points. Not fatal but startling, especially while you are making adjustments in a dark room.
Some variation on the Von de Graf generator theme. Looking forward to hearing
about your results!
G
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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i think he is going to use the 6 pole stig windings.
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| zGman wrote: | There is on the 1292 coils a ground wire that is tied to the outside of the magnets.
It is a good idea to tie this to ground, to avoid build up of staic charge. it is also
a good idea to tie the metal clamp to ground. and Scott mentioned grounding the un-used
stig coils. You will be amazed how quickly a high static voltage can buildup on these
points. Not fatal but startling, especially while you are making adjustments in a dark room.
Some variation on the Von de Graf generator theme. Looking forward to hearing
about your results!
G |
Very good tips. I have chronic static crackle and occasional discharge problems on both my Marquees, and I don't know if it's due to inadequate grounding or leakage from the HV leads. I'm not a fan of how Electrohome grounds the bells of their tubes or the way the Marquee routes its HV lines. What a rat's nest and the splitter location seems like asking for trouble. Barco does all this much better. 
I'll do as you say and ground all this, especially those unused 6-pole coils. Thanks for the info.
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | | i think he is going to use the 6 pole stig windings. |
I'm going to leave them unused for now.
You should see the active CPC yokes the G90 uses. I'd like to incorporate their use as well some day into the Marquee.
Steve
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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i would like to see how you will be able to adjust the 6pole stig windings independently from the 4pole in all zones.
do you have the 2-4-6pole flare magnets installed on both marquees?
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | i would like to see how you will be able to adjust the 6pole stig windings independently from the 4pole in all zones.
do you have the 2-4-6pole flare magnets installed on both marquees? |
Well, first things first. I will hook up "like for like" for now and ground the unused windings.
I do have the 2/4/6 CPC yokes in my MP9, which is down for mods. I do not have them in my Vision 1 but I was still able to get very tight, round beam spot with them and the dynamic stig/focus. I did order a set of 2/4/6 CPCs for this set from Tim the other day. I only have the 2 and 4 pole CPCs in the Vidikron, and the 4 pole is not adjustable. But like I said, they will be coming off soon.
The Sony focus yokes are going in my MP9, not the Vision 1. The Vidikron is currently mounted and working well, albeit with a green static convergence drift problem. The MP9 is disassembled in the garage for bellows upgrades (complete), installation of a LUG blue (wrecked the sweep yoke getting it off the original tube - damn hot glue!), and the Sony yokes. I'll see if I can get it running today and report back.
Steve
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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convergence drift is very annoying, i would look into this 1st but that`s me.
i replaced the 1n4000 series diodes with sbyv27-200v on the conv board and on the vdm, it`s been rock solid ever since.
and as you might have read, i changed the fets on the hdm too which now runs much cooler.
the 4pole on the 2-4 pole is a dummy ring, i opened 1 to have a look inside and it`s just a ring of plastic.
do not forget to wash the bellows thoroughly before installing like i did.
also, keep the lenses on the same colour.
dennis
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | convergence drift is very annoying, i would look into this 1st but that`s me.
i replaced the 1n4000 series diodes with sbyv27-200v on the conv board and on the vdm, it`s been rock solid ever since.
and as you might have read, i changed the fets on the hdm too which now runs much cooler.
the 4pole on the 2-4 pole is a dummy ring, i opened 1 to have a look inside and it`s just a ring of plastic.
do not forget to wash the bellows thoroughly before installing like i did.
also, keep the lenses on the same colour.
dennis |
My V1 doesn't drift after it's warmed up and adjusted. Just every time the set is shut down and then powered up a day or two later, the green has shifted and needs a little static adjustment after a 15 min warmup. It doesn't stop us from using it regularly. I am interested in the semiconductor upgrades you speak of, though.
Funny you should say the 4 pole CPC is a dummy - I could see no change in stig by moving it, so that's nice to know!
Also funny you should mention washing the bellows. As I started putting this set back together today I've hit a show stopper: Fungus! Or at least that's what I think it is. The anodization on the casting for the green was pitted, so maybe this is the product of a chemical reaction between the new glycerine based fluid and the exposed aluminum. I doubt it, though, it sure looks like fungus. The tubes for my MP9 have been sitting for ~6 months in my garage after I changed the bellows on them and charged with the new coolant. Just haven't had the time to sort out the G90 yokes, so the set has sat disassembled. The blue tube I bought from Dragan already had the new bellows and fluid. I was pretty sure I very thoroughly washed the new bellows before I installed them for the red and green, but the green speaks for itself. The red has a few very small blobs forming. The blue looks okay. Hmm. Maybe I was lazy and didn't wash them. I'm using the same stuff Dragan is using. But I do clearly remember washing them with a mild glycerin soap before installing them.
One this is for sure, they haven't leaked a drop, and NO RTV was using in their assembly.
So, I gotta take the magnetics off and clean out the red and green. 
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
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Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Spoke too soon. I can see the beginnings of the same thing in the both the red and Dragan's blue.
Sigh. All three need a bath.
Steve
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