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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I calculated some time ago what to do in order to adjust the band 3 resonant frequency to match up exactly to 1080p-60, assuming
nominal inductance values of 45 uH and 30 mH.
It's just a matter of strapping another .022 cap across the existing .022 cap (the blue WIMA types) in the selectable resonance caps
on the focus board, if I remember correctly.
I don't know exactly where that post is, but it's around here somewhere.
CJ
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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what has happened to this thread??? everyone awake again!!
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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220nf you mean chris?
sorry but i want to get this clear.
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: G90 focus yokes for Marquee Ultra |
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I have read the Frankenyoke/Barkenstein tome. I am somewhat enlightened and somewhat confused about all the possible variations of doing custom focus yokes on the Marquee.
I have acquired a set of G90 focus yokes. They are huge. I also have the G90 dynamic CPC yokes. They will go unused until someone designs a custom board for the Marquee to drive these suckers.
I have scoured the info provided by apparently the only user to ever have actually used the G90 yokes on a Marquee: Andre (Antorsae) in Spain. He later reverted to 1292 yokes because they are smaller and easier to adjust (rotate?) on the Marquee, although he hinted that the G90 yokes might be a tiny bit better. This is understandable. It's clear that these things will probably barely make it into the tube shrouds. That can't be good for the airflow that needs to get back to the neck boards. But I'm willing to take that risk.
Anyway, after reading about reversing the coils inside the yoke, winding/dewinding the coils with various sized wire to try and preserve DCR and match the inductance, and even add capacitors (and a thermistor??) to the mix to tune RLC resonances for these various coils, I have to say... I'm a bit lost.
I'm willing to mod any of the coils in the G90 yoke, flip, rotate, reorient as needed. I can adapt the wiring as needed. And I can customize for the other elements (caps) that may also be needed.
I seek the direction of Athanasios, Scott (tse), Chris, Andre and any other experts here who would know how to apply the G90 focus yoke to an Ultra.
Thanks In Advance,
Steve
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CxTurbo
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 425
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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What he said!
I will be in the same boat shortly with a set of G90 magnetics. I would love some clarification as most of the info is for the other yokes not the G90's so much.
cmjohnson was working on/llooking into a set of these as well was he not? Anyone know how he made out?.......
I am ALWAYS! lost though. lol
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Can anyone refresh my memory on the inductance and resistance of the dynamic and static windings in the G90 focus magnets? It is important that the dynamic winding is close in value to the Marquee because of the type of circuit used to drive it. The static winding is less critical especially if higher in value than the Marquee.
Scott
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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From what Andres did with his G90 yokes I do believe they were close in value to the 1292 yokes.
The only reason to flip the magnets around on the inside of the sony type yokes is that the raster will rotate about 20 degrees. you have to remove the deflection yoke glue and re level the raster. Some find this more difficult than opening up a focus coil.
Scott,I do not remember if anyone did measure the G90 inductance. I should do that so we have a complete list of all values. There is a list buried in this thread somewhere however without the G90 listed.
Steve I would just hook them up as if to see if the G90 rotates the raster as well. I would not bother rewinding the existing value I think is ok from what Andres told me in PM's. The magnets might be a bit close in Gauss to the marquee's. One way to test is to put the yokes on a tube with no connection and look at how well the grid is focused. The better it is the less you need to rely on the electronics.
I found the 1292 yokes softer than the barco but the barco had to be rewound.
Wish I had the time needed to get this all worked out. Maybe someday.
Athanasios
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| CxTurbo wrote: | What he said!
I will be in the same boat shortly with a set of G90 magnetics. I would love some clarification as most of the info is for the other yokes not the G90's so much.
cmjohnson was working on/llooking into a set of these as well was he not? Anyone know how he made out?.......
I am ALWAYS! lost though. lol |
I PM'd Andre and hope he is still monitoring that comms channel.
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | Can anyone refresh my memory on the inductance and resistance of the dynamic and static windings in the G90 focus magnets? It is important that the dynamic winding is close in value to the Marquee because of the type of circuit used to drive it. The static winding is less critical especially if higher in value than the Marquee.
Scott |
I did not glean these figures from everything I've read on the frankenyoke/barkenstein thread and other posts. I do not have an inductance meter, although I have an old data acquisition card (ISA!) that could do reasonably good inductance measurements. I'd have to dig that old PC out from where ever it is, currently functioning as a critter dwelling, I'm sure.
Would it be as simple as just taking DCR measurements (which I can do) of all the coils, comparing them to the Tompson yoke's coils, then making the association that way, assuming they are close enough impedance for the Marquee drive circuits?
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | From what Andres did with his G90 yokes I do believe they were close in value to the 1292 yokes.
The only reason to flip the magnets around on the inside of the sony type yokes is that the raster will rotate about 20 degrees. you have to remove the deflection yoke glue and re level the raster. Some find this more difficult than opening up a focus coil. |
If the magnets are flipped, does the deflection yoke still have to be rotated? By the way, I've removed the glue on these yokes on all the tubes in my Marquees, destroying one yoke in the process. If the deflection yoke is properly seated in the convergence yoke and both are snugged up against the bell, there's plenty of friction to keep the deflection yoke from going anywhere. Hot gluing the deflection yoke is one of the more exasperating features of the Marquee. That and people using screw drivers to pry out C-elements and gouging the crap out of the housing. I want to bitch smack those idiots.
| Nashou66 wrote: | | Scott,I do not remember if anyone did measure the G90 inductance. I should do that so we have a complete list of all values. There is a list buried in this thread somewhere however without the G90 listed. |
Correct. I may be able to scare up an inductance meter to measure mine and provide that data for you.
| Nashou66 wrote: | | Steve I would just hook them up as if to see if the G90 rotates the raster as well. I would not bother rewinding the existing value I think is ok from what Andres told me in PM's. The magnets might be a bit close in Gauss to the marquee's. One way to test is to put the yokes on a tube with no connection and look at how well the grid is focused. The better it is the less you need to rely on the electronics. I found the 1292 yokes softer than the barco but the barco had to be rewound. |
I'm thinking I can identify the correct association of coil:circuit simply by comparing DCR of the G90 values to the Tompson values, and if I don't have to make any winding changes, I can connect them accordingly.
On flipping the magnets, are we talking simply taking the entire cylinder magnet and flipping it 180? Or actually rotating it somewhat in the yoke? Isn't the G90 magnet composed of pie sections that form a ring, as opposed to the individual cylinder magnets in the Tompson?
| Nashou66 wrote: | Wish I had the time needed to get this all worked out. Maybe someday.
Athanasios |
Yes, the Marquee guys need the definitive guide on this subject, especially since it rounds out the only real performance deficiency in the Ultra. I've got a brand new blue LUG in my MP9, and I've replaced the bellows with yours on the green and red (also LUGs). I have the Mikron neckboards and VIM. Really the last thing for me is the focus yokes, with maybe some circuit upgrade/refreshes down the road based on your and Dragan's work.
And how cool would it be to fit the Marquee with those dynamic CPCs from the G90? It would require a dedicated driver board, obviously.
Much thanks,
Steve
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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If the G90 mags are like the Marquee the static focus winding will be several ohms and fairly high inductance. The dynamic focus winding has to be low inductance (because it operates at horizontal frequencies) so will be much lower resistance, like a fraction of an ohm. The stig windings will probably be higher inductance than the dynamic focus so might be a little higher resistance. Might be able to identify the windings from that.
Scott
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve wrote: | | And how cool would it be to fit the Marquee with those dynamic CPCs from the G90? It would require a dedicated driver board, obviously. |
CJ and I have talked about this and thought it might be possible to use either the Volume control output on the VIM's audio section for the voltage or use the tint and color controls fed from the MDM board if you have one still.
We'd only have to figure out what voltage is from the G90 to those magnets and if its a wave form or just a straight voltage
source.
Not sure about the electrical engineering side of it .
Athanasios
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | If the G90 mags are like the Marquee the static focus winding will be several ohms and fairly high inductance. The dynamic focus winding has to be low inductance (because it operates at horizontal frequencies) so will be much lower resistance, like a fraction of an ohm. The stig windings will probably be higher inductance than the dynamic focus so might be a little higher resistance. Might be able to identify the windings from that.
Scott |
That makes sense.
Do you have a clarification on the "rotating" of the magnet(s)?
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Steve wrote: | | And how cool would it be to fit the Marquee with those dynamic CPCs from the G90? It would require a dedicated driver board, obviously. |
CJ and I have talked about this and thought it might be possible to use either the Volume control output on the VIM's audio section for the voltage or use the tint and color controls fed from the MDM board if you have one still.
We'd only have to figure out what voltage is from the G90 to those magnets and if its a wave form or just a straight voltage
source.
Not sure about the electrical engineering side of it .
Athanasios |
Betcha Craig rounds could put a scope on those some day...
Even if it was something totally dedicated to these CPC yokes, like a small connector that you jack into from the back of the projector, it's only something that would be done while setting the projector up and it would sure beat trying to twiddle with those CPC magnets while trying to make out spot shape/flair etc.
Steve
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't you Marquee guys just buy a G90 instead of trying to add G90 parts to your machines. Everything is already there for you and even more and they are more affordable then ever.
And don't use ic421 as an excuse cause I can count on 2 hands how many actual problems with that chip I have heard of plus replacement YA boards are becoming more available.
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | Why don't you Marquee guys just buy a G90 instead of trying to add G90 parts to your machines. Everything is already there for you and even more and they are more affordable then ever.
And don't use ic421 as an excuse cause I can count on 2 hands how many actual problems with that chip I have heard of plus replacement YA boards are becoming more available. |
Get a G90. Why didn't I think of that. Yeah, that's the ticket! Oh wait, I could have gotten ANY machine I wanted, and I ended up with the Marquee. Gee, now if I could only remember why... Oh yeah, I weighed all the pros and cons of the G90, Barco 909 and the Marquee, and chose the Marquee.
Thanks for your input.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh, now I get it..... 
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Actually no I don't and now you have me curious. Why did you choose the Marquee if you had those other options?
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Actually no I don't and now you have me curious. Why did you choose the Marquee if you had those other options? |
Seriously? Fine: SOTA, most plentiful, largest knowledge base, largest community, most tweaked, still made.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Actually no I don't and now you have me curious. Why did you choose the Marquee if you had those other options? |
Seriously? Fine: SOTA, most plentiful, largest knowledge base, largest community, most tweaked, still made. |
I guess I'll just have to let this go because it would probably just end up being a debate....... unless you would like to debate it. But you already purchased so I wouldn't think so.
Otherwise, no further questions.
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