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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: BG1209S Setup issues |
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Well, I finally mounted my PJ using unistrut and ran an initial setup.
I managed to get good focus from the HD120 lenses although the projection distance is quite short 3.5m.
My setup includes an ISTAR H6 media player (identical to popcorn 110) connected via HDMI to a Moome ext. HD v2 box connected to the PJ using RGBHV.
I now have two problems that bother me:
1) picture size: when I set the resolution to 1080P@50Hz, I get great picture, but even when I set the H-size to maximal value the picture isn't even close to the raster edges.
However, when I use 1080P@60Hz, I can set a much bigger picture, but I can't see the whole picture it's either truncated from the left of folded from the right.
2) red vertical line at warm up: when I set the power on and get the 20 minutes white screen, I get a vertical red line on the left side of the picture, when I try to use a smaller white screen the red line moves together with the left boarder.
Any ideas are welcomed,
Thanks,
Or
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
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1) Have you adjusted the H/width pot on the SMPS? P100 I think. The manual will explain in detail.
Also seems at 60 hz you need to adjust your porches if you're getting wrap around. You need a processor or pc for this
2) Not sure what you mean with this,do you have a pic?
Dave
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| huggy wrote: | 1) Have you adjusted the H/width pot on the SMPS? P100 I think. The manual will explain in detail.
Also seems at 60 hz you need to adjust your porches if you're getting wrap around. You need a processor or pc for this
2) Not sure what you mean with this,do you have a pic?
Dave |
1) I bypassed the Moome card and put an 1920X1200@60Hz signal via VESA, still the same problem. regarding the porches, I adjusted another 1209S several months ago and it took the 1920X1200@60Hz signal without any problem and without a processor. the problem is either something not set corrrectly in the PJ, or the source itself (I doubt the second option)
2) I don't have a picture, it's a thin vertical red line ~20CM from the left side of the white warm up screen.
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Can you tell me in which manual I can find a detailed explanation on how to set width using this pot?
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Gerbrand
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
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In order to get 1080@60 Hz working on a 1209s, you need the projector to go into "high scanning" mode. If the projector does this, you hear a very distinctive click of a relais and you will see the projector defocus for a second or two.
The projector goes into "high scanning" mode when the horizontal frequency goes above a certain limit. You can adjust this limit by a pot. This is not the same as the H-width pot. I think it is located at the scan control board, but I am not sure.
A disadvantage of high scanning mode is that the left side ringing is strongly increased. I only use it for games, personally.
Gerbrand
_________________
BG1209s (color filtered,new LUGs!), 13000h
Bat cave
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: |
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OK,
and if I only want to get a bigger picture at 1080P 50Hz, what pot should I play with?
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gerbrand wrote: | In order to get 1080@60 Hz working on a 1209s, you need the projector to go into "high scanning" mode. If the projector does this, you hear a very distinctive click of a relais and you will see the projector defocus for a second or two.
The projector goes into "high scanning" mode when the horizontal frequency goes above a certain limit. You can adjust this limit by a pot. This is not the same as the H-width pot. I think it is located at the scan control board, but I am not sure.
A disadvantage of high scanning mode is that the left side ringing is strongly increased. I only use it for games, personally.
Gerbrand |
That is one way to get it to work the other is to adjust the h-width pot on the SMPS. The advantage here is that you don't making the ringing worse. That said if you push the pot too far you get picture instability, especially if you have an SPMS that isn't the old version or a late model modified one. Curt has the tech note up in the Barco area on the necessary mode if your projector starts to "blink" because of h-width. As an aside not all Barco 1209s have the high scan mode the Barco Data 1209s and the Runco clones do not have high scan capability.
Last edited by secstate on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| opv wrote: | OK,
and if I only want to get a bigger picture at 1080P 50Hz, what pot should I play with? |
It is on the SMPS board:
See this for location of board:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco1208_Layout2.shtm
Unfortunately Curt doesn't have a shot of the pot on the 120x board but you can see where it is on the 808 board here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco808_Layout6.shtm
What I do is adjust the pot above at highest scan rate I am going to use. I put the electronic width control to about 85 and then adjust the pot till I more or less fill the screen. I then can use the electronic width control to fine tune as I need.
Also note it you get horizontal instability you may need to do this mod:
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Barco_FSB15_SMPS_Hor_Ampl_Stability.pdf
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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BTW item two sounds like a convergence issue to me. Sound like red is not converged properly this will be most obvious when you have white at the edge of the picture (or an all white screen). Assuming your projector is ceiling mounted, this following may also apply. EVERY (we are talking a half dozen at least) S model Barco I have had (808s, 1208s/2 and 1209s/E--sometime more than one of that model) have had an issue getting red convergence perfect on the left side of the screen. I have also had a half dozen non-S Barcos and not one had this issue. Sadly my worst set in this regard is my current 1209s. It goes from being pretty bad to almost perfect in about 20 mins or warm up time.
Edit just reread your post. My explanation above only applies if the line is immediately next to white area. If it is apart then my explanation is not it.
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is the H-width pot one of the pots you have to use a plastic screwdriver and not a metal one?
Anything else I should know before touching it?
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Gerbrand
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| secstate wrote: |
That is one way to get it to work the other is to adjust the h-width pot on the SMPS. The advantage here is that you don't making the ringing worse. |
I found that without going into high scan mode, I cannot make 1080p60 to work without some of the image falling off the edges of the raster.
For 1080p50, you always need a scalar (or HTPC).
I have a pretty old 1209s (1997) and it already has high scan mode. I do not know which models don't (except for the non-s and Runcos).
Gerbrand
_________________
BG1209s (color filtered,new LUGs!), 13000h
Bat cave
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Gerbrand
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| opv wrote: |
Is the H-width pot one of the pots you have to use a plastic screwdriver and not a metal one?
Anything else I should know before touching it? |
Yes that's the one. BTW: I took a chop stick from a Chinese restaurant and carved myself a wooden screwdriver. It also works. 
The H-width works such that when the screw is fully screwed in, the H-width is largest. In practice I only use it to adjust the colors with respect to each other.
Gerbrand
_________________
BG1209s (color filtered,new LUGs!), 13000h
Bat cave
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gerbrand wrote: | | secstate wrote: |
That is one way to get it to work the other is to adjust the h-width pot on the SMPS. The advantage here is that you don't making the ringing worse. |
I found that without going into high scan mode, I cannot make 1080p60 to work without some of the image falling off the edges of the raster.
For 1080p50, you always need a scalar (or HTPC).
I have a pretty old 1209s (1997) and it already has high scan mode. I do not know which models don't (except for the non-s and Runcos).
Gerbrand |
why do I need a scaler for 1080P 50Hz? won't the horizontal width pot solve the image size problem?
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Gerbrand
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Gerbrand wrote: | | opv wrote: |
Is the H-width pot one of the pots you have to use a plastic screwdriver and not a metal one?
Anything else I should know before touching it? |
Yes that's the one. BTW: I took a chop stick from a Chinese restaurant and carved myself a wooden screwdriver. It also works.
The H-width works such that when the screw is fully screwed in, the H-width is largest. In practice I only use it to adjust the colors with respect to each other.
Gerbrand |
I have to correct myself. The H-width pot secstate is referring to is different from the scanwidth coils I was talking about. The scanwidth coils can only be touched with the plastic screwdriver and can only be used to make the image narrower. He H-width (masterwidth) pot can be used to make the picture wider.
But I think it will not go wide enough for 1080p50 to work. The porches are just too large in that case.
Gerbrand
_________________
BG1209s (color filtered,new LUGs!), 13000h
Bat cave
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gerbrand wrote: | | Gerbrand wrote: | | opv wrote: |
Is the H-width pot one of the pots you have to use a plastic screwdriver and not a metal one?
Anything else I should know before touching it? |
Yes that's the one. BTW: I took a chop stick from a Chinese restaurant and carved myself a wooden screwdriver. It also works.
The H-width works such that when the screw is fully screwed in, the H-width is largest. In practice I only use it to adjust the colors with respect to each other.
Gerbrand |
I have to correct myself. The H-width pot secstate is referring to is different from the scanwidth coils I was talking about. The scanwidth coils can only be touched with the plastic screwdriver and can only be used to make the image narrower. He H-width (masterwidth) pot can be used to make the picture wider.
But I think it will not go wide enough for 1080p50 to work. The porches are just too large in that case.
Gerbrand |
Now you got me confused,
I get a very good picture at 1080P@50Hz.
All I want is the picture the be a little wider.
will the masterwidth pot give a wider picture at 50Hz refresh rate?
can I adhust this masterwidth pot with a metal scewdriver or should I use non metal?
Do you a picture where exactly this pot is located on the 1209S?
Thanks,
Or
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| opv wrote: | Now you got me confused,
I get a very good picture at 1080P@50Hz.
All I want is the picture the be a little wider.
will the masterwidth pot give a wider picture at 50Hz refresh rate?
can I adhust this masterwidth pot with a metal scewdriver or should I use non metal?
Do you a picture where exactly this pot is located on the 1209S?
Thanks,
Or |
Usually 1080P@50Hz timings from euro HDTV tuners are wrong for crt projector and part of the picture get cropped from sides. But you can test to widen picture turning P2 pot from smps daughter board. You mess your geometry and gonvergence though.
Metal driver is just fine for trim pots. Plastic tuning driver is only required with adjustable coils, that have strong magnet field inside.
Check that there is P2 marked to board before adjustment, location might differ little. In manual it's bit different in picture and in lay-out drawing.
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gerbrand wrote: | | secstate wrote: |
That is one way to get it to work the other is to adjust the h-width pot on the SMPS. The advantage here is that you don't making the ringing worse. |
I found that without going into high scan mode, I cannot make 1080p60 to work without some of the image falling off the edges of the raster.
For 1080p50, you always need a scalar (or HTPC).
I have a pretty old 1209s (1997) and it already has high scan mode. I do not know which models don't (except for the non-s and Runcos).
Gerbrand |
I live in NTSC land so I have never tried 1080p 50 Hz so you could be right. As far as I know all Barco Graphics 1209 models (both S and non-s) along with the Graphics 1208 (both S and non-S) have the high scan coils. The Barco Data 1209s (only came in S trim as far as I know) and some/all Runcos do not (I don't know that we have resolved whether the Runco 1101 is based on the Graphics or Data 1209s). The Runco 1100s come in at least two versions one of which actually has Barco Data 1209s Data labels on the inside and the later ones which (I have) which have at least one board change to make them not quite the same as a Data 1209s (though functionally the same). The Barco Data 1209s seem to be a relatively late development, the few that I have seen have all been from the year 2000.
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ile wrote: | | opv wrote: | Now you got me confused,
I get a very good picture at 1080P@50Hz.
All I want is the picture the be a little wider.
will the masterwidth pot give a wider picture at 50Hz refresh rate?
can I adhust this masterwidth pot with a metal scewdriver or should I use non metal?
Do you a picture where exactly this pot is located on the 1209S?
Thanks,
Or |
Usually 1080P@50Hz timings from euro HDTV tuners are wrong for crt projector and part of the picture get cropped from sides. But you can test to widen picture turning P2 pot from smps daughter board. You mess your geometry and gonvergence though.
Metal driver is just fine for trim pots. Plastic tuning driver is only required with adjustable coils, that have strong magnet field inside.
Check that there is P2 marked to board before adjustment, location might differ little. In manual it's bit different in picture and in lay-out drawing. |
Great!
it worked, I can get a much larger picture at 1080P@50Hz.
I still haven't checked 1080P@60Hz to see if any thing changed.
Thanks for the detailed explanation and the picture!
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