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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: Fun with Marquee Control Boards |
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Guys!
I have been testing Ultra control boards here for the last week and saw some interesting problems. On one DPB, U7 was labelled upside down and jammed into the chip socket. The machine did power up with a whining noise, no picture. I spun the chip around where it belonged and everything worked.
Today's mission was to chip up an earlier v4.0a clm to work in an Ultra. I got curious and started trying things. The 4.0a board also had IOP3.0 and D5.20. I expected it to fire up but not indicate the special Ultra geometry functions. Wrong! This is what I saw:
Top Key Slider shown, did not adjust
Top Pin Slider shown, did not adjust
Bot Key Slider shown, did not adjust
Bot Pin Slider shown, did not adjust
H Skew Works fully
H Bow Works fully! Never expected that
V Skew Slider shown, did not adjust
V Bow Slider shown, did not adjust
I changed U35 to v4.5, I expected some if not all the functions to start working. Wrong! No Freakin' Change!
Okay, either the DPB U7 was wrong level or the IOP. Changed U7 to 5.6, No Freakin' Change!!!!! Changed the IOP to 3.1 as normally found in an Ultra, No Freakin' Change!
There was one more thing to try, adding the second flywire to the DPB across the top. Bingo! Everything now works!!!!! The mystery signal brought all the missing functions to life. Next chore is to find out what is on that flywire.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fun with Marquee Control Boards |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Okay, either the DPB U7 was wrong level or the IOP. Changed U7 to 5.6, No Freakin' Change!!!!! Changed the IOP to 3.1 as normally found in an Ultra, No Freakin' Change!
There was one more thing to try, adding the second flywire to the DPB across the top. Bingo! Everything now works!!!!! The mystery signal brought all the missing functions to life. Next chore is to find out what is on that flywire. |
ok, so U7 versions are not critical? Did you put 5.2 back in?
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Fun with Marquee Control Boards |
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| draganm wrote: | | ok, so U7 versions are not critical? Did you put 5.2 back in? |
I don't know that yet, it was 110 degrees in my shop so I only work out there five minutes at a time.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Guys!
I reverted back to D5.20 and the geometry continued to work like D5.6
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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so to sum it up so that I followed this correctly, you basically updated the firmware revision and added a fly wire to the DPB. I didn't quite follow the firmware though. Which chips did you find necessary to update for the Ultra functions to work correctly?
_________________
~Paul
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Guys!
In further tests, the Ultra geometry features work after reverting to v4.0a and IOP3.0 and D5.20. This was something of a surprise as I have never seen an Ultra
below 4.2c, IOP3.1 and D5.5.
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DB Cooper
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Ambler, Lancaster PA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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So Tim, you're saying if we add a fly wire to the DPB we will get Ultra geometry features with lower level chips?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DB Cooper wrote: | | So Tim, you're saying if we add a fly wire to the DPB we will get Ultra geometry features with lower level chips? |
No, you would need U7 do be at least 5.2 and on the CLM U35 would have to be 4.x and higher, i think they start on 4.1.
And you'd need to do the mods to the rear boards and find a FGM board.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DB Cooper wrote: | | So Tim, you're saying if we add a fly wire to the DPB we will get Ultra geometry features with lower level chips? |
I expect you would also need an Ultra top mother board, an Ultra Geom/Focus board, and a small mod to the convergence amp. U35 would likely have to be v4.0 or higher.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Guys!
The added flywire on the DPB ties "StartZ" to "HSpare1". I'll try to get the scope on that for a look at this signal, or maybe Scott can enlighten us. StartZ would appear to be needed on the Geom/Focus board.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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If I remember correctly the startZ is the horizontal frequency start pulse for the contrast modulation. There is a delay through all the h freq stuff like contrast mod (startZ), h dynamic focus (startF), h convergence fuctions (startC), and h freq geometry fuctions (startZ) which shares a start pulse with the contrast modulation. Each fuction needs a start pulse that happens at its own time so the funtions actually start at the beginning of the raster. Each is individually adjusted in the secret factory menu. For the most part the nominal settings are pretty good.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: |
The added flywire on the DPB ties "StartZ" to "HSpare1". I'll try to get the scope on that for a look at this signal, or maybe Scott can enlighten us. StartZ would appear to be needed on the Geom/Focus board.
. |
Have you ever considered that Electrohome was so far ahead of the curve that they were on the map long before the current street talk started?
It StartZ right here. Fo'shizzle. 
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Guys!
In comparing an earlier top mother board to an Ultra top mother, there are a number of foil traces going from the Geom/Focus connector to the HDM connector, so there are a number of pulses and waveforms that tie things together to make the Ultra additional geometry features work..
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Guys!
In comparing an earlier top mother board to an Ultra top mother, there are a number of foil traces going from the Geom/Focus connector to the HDM connector, so there are a number of pulses and waveforms that tie things together to make the Ultra additional geometry features work..
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Ahhh good to know. I have a project I have been wanting to do. An add on Geometry section for the FCM. So now I'd have to add jumper wires or flywires from the Connector of the FCM/FGM to the HDM. I need to find an Ultra test chassis noW Damn it another Marquee Quest 
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
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"I need to find an Ultra test chassis"
The twins are ultras ain't they?
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: |
The added flywire on the DPB ties "StartZ" to "HSpare1". I'll try to get the scope on that for a look at this signal, or maybe Scott can enlighten us. StartZ would appear to be needed on the Geom/Focus board.
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Have you ever considered that Electrohome was so far ahead of the curve that they were on the map long before the current street talk started?
It StartZ right here. Fo'shizzle. |
Haha! You don't see no Ampro talkin' smack like that. Peace Out. 
_________________
~Paul
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