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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Now boys, be nice or I'll take your Playboys and Vasoline away 
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Hey Scott (tse) I did it..
After a quick and dirty setup, it looked good enough to take a few shots. It'll take me about a week to get back around to it and really dial things in the way I really like it. Colors not calibrated either..
1920x1080P @ 72hz HD-10L lenses
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1920x1080P @ 72hz with CONTRAST at full 100
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: |
As far as why water is wet, I think it must be because it is also shiny in sunlight 
craigr |
If you swim in melted dry ice, you won't get wet. 
(shamelessly stolen from a comedian whose name I can't remember... dammit!).
I will be the first to admit that I am much more a service guy than an engineering or even a reverse engineering guy, but to me, all focusing issues come from the focusing magnet and magnetic field that is around the tube neck. I'll be sticking my neck out here (rimshot!) and will say that I don't see anything happening via the CRT pins that will improve focusing ability, but hey, prove me wrong.
I'll have a Marquee set up here this week, will post pix of the poor focusing LUG at several contrast levels, and have a set of G90 yokes here that I will play with. Interesting thread though. 
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mp20748"] | macgyver655 wrote: |
My comment "more then you know" didn't refer to myself knowing more then you, it meant that I know more about this stuff then you think I do. You were the one telling me I didn't know what I was talking about.[b] |
where did I ever challenge you on what you know?
| Quote: | | And I dont brag about what I know I only post to help others |
I'll leave this one alone..
| Quote: | | [b]Its only when I'm attacked about my knowledge that I have to comment on it |
Who and where was your knowledge attacked?
Curt asked a question (below) and this is your response:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Someone still needs to explain to me how the VIDEO portion of the signal affects focusing. Smearing, bandwidth, I understand that, but I don't understand now neck board mods can affect focusing at high contrast...???? |
Would you like the short explanation or the long one, lol? |
So somehow you had an answer to that question without even knowing the real answer to the question.
Now (below) you then started challenging me for the answer, or an answer that you would approve:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Just answer my question then. Are you decreasing beam current? Of course if you dont know the answer I understand. |
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Quote: | | And all you've really ever said was, I did something and now my projector doesn't bloom at full contrast. Thats not an explanation. So would you like to explain? |
| Quote: | And what did I expect, you still didn't answer my question. Not that I'm surprised.
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I done here... |
Another post and still no answer to my question. I refuse to get involved in your mess here mike. I'm sticking to the question.
Its starting to seem more like your ducking the question.
So let me ask it again nice and clearly.
Does your mods that achieve running contrast at 100 without blooming, lower the beam current?
Even if you dont think I understand whats going on I would still like to be amused with an answer.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | Hey Scott (tse) I did it..
After a quick and dirty setup, it looked good enough to take a few shots. It'll take me about a week to get back around to it and really dial things in the way I really like it. Colors not calibrated either..
1920x1080P @ 72hz HD-10L lenses
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Mike, I think the horizontal 1:1 lines look better than they did when I saw your projector the last time.
Cool 
craigr
_________________
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | Now that everyone is in such a good mood I tell you what I am going to do. I will take before and after photos of the SMTPE 1:1 burst before and after I install Mike's boards. This might not prove any questions on why it works, but it should show whether or not it works to us all.
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Craig, what I would be curious to know if your going to be doing some testing on this is: before you change the boards could you run the contrast up to just before it blooms and get a light output reading. Then after you change the boards run the contrast up to 100 and get a light output reading.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | Now that everyone is in such a good mood I tell you what I am going to do. I will take before and after photos of the SMTPE 1:1 burst before and after I install Mike's boards. This might not prove any questions on why it works, but it should show whether or not it works to us all.
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Craig, what I would be curious to know if your going to be doing some testing on this is: before you change the boards could you run the contrast up to just before it blooms and get a light output reading. Then after you change the boards run the contrast up to 100 and get a light output reading. |
Yes, er probably (depends on what tools I have with me).
However, I will say what I noticed at Mike's place. At 100 contrast Mike's projector is VERY VERY bright. However, I don't think it is as bright as a stock 9500 without the mods. This is subjective, but I will get real data when I get out to do the board swap.
craigr
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Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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A stock Marquee 9500LC would be brighter at full contrast (100), but it's usable brightness is no were near as bright as "properly modified" Marquee could get. I've measured both.
Not sure why the Madrigal that Craig will be installing the boards in would qualify for this test. I've already indicated that I have no idea how that version of the mods would perform with LUG tubes. And, I've also indicated that there's a few toher things that's very important beyond the boards (mods) that would need to take place before you could get the same results (read back in the thread).
So using that protector as a test bed or reference is not something that I would say would be a good idea for this.
Now, if you really want to see this in action, check it out on the only Machine that I recall that I have prepared to make this happen on...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | A stock Marquee 9500LC would be brighter at full contrast (100), but it's usable brightness is no were near as bright as "properly modified" Marquee could get. I've measured both.
Not sure why the Madrigal that Craig will be installing the boards in would qualify for this test. I've already indicated that I have no idea how that version of the mods would perform with LUG tubes. And, I've also indicated that there's a few toher things that's very important beyond the boards (mods) that would need to take place before you could get the same results (read back in the thread).
So using that protector as a test bed or reference is not something that I would say would be a good idea for this.
Now, if you really want to see this in action, check it out on the only Machine that I recall that I have prepared to make this happen on... |
All I think is that my client's Madrigal will be another good test for testing's sake. Can't hurt to see what I find with his green LUG. I also want to see what red and green each look like on their own. He's got a green LUG and red LCP... and blue doesn't matter
craigr
_________________
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Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | A stock Marquee 9500LC would be brighter at full contrast (100), but it's usable brightness is no were near as bright as "properly modified" Marquee could get. I've measured both. |
Yeah, totally agree. I know we measured your Marquee's 100 IRE flt, but I don't remember what it was, not to mention that the screen you had at the time was not the greatest and seemed to have a less than 1.0 gain. But the usable white level was certainly far greater than a stock Marquee 9500.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | Another post and still no answer to my question. I refuse to get involved in your mess here mike. I'm sticking to the question.
Its starting to seem more like your ducking the question.
So let me ask it again nice and clearly.
Does your mods that achieve running contrast at 100 without blooming, lower the beam current?
Even if you dont think I understand whats going on I would still like to be amused with an answer. |
dang, in the many years I've been on these forums, I've yet to read where there's been anyone as hung up on themselves as you are about proving you're some kind of super smart technical guy.
Everyone of the REALLY smart technical guys that has ever been on these forums has also been very humble. You are the exception of course. So either you're also one of them, or you're not a really smart technical guy.
I'm thinking that you're either so smart that you could figure out from my previous response the answer to your question... because you see, it's not important to me at all to engage you in a senseless debate or to prove that I know what I'm doing. if the discussions were based in something that I planed to do, then your question would make sense to ME. Since to me, I've already accomplished what's been mentioned, then I won't waste time piddling around in discussions that's not going anywhere.
Over the years and every now and then there has always been someone to embrace the forums with a bunch technical questions asked only to keep their ego's inflated...
So I just want you to know, your season is now...
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | Another post and still no answer to my question. I refuse to get involved in your mess here mike. I'm sticking to the question.
Its starting to seem more like your ducking the question.
So let me ask it again nice and clearly.
Does your mods that achieve running contrast at 100 without blooming, lower the beam current?
Even if you dont think I understand whats going on I would still like to be amused with an answer. |
dang, in the many years I've been on these forums, I've yet to read where there's been anyone as hung up on themselves as you are about proving you're some kind of super smart technical guy.
Everyone of the REALLY smart technical guys that has ever been on these forums has also been very humble. You are the exception of course. So either you're also one of them, or you're not a really smart technical guy.
I'm thinking that you're either so smart that you could figure out from my previous response the answer to your question... because you see, it's not important to me at all to engage you in a senseless debate or to prove that I know what I'm doing. if the discussions were based in something that I planed to do, then your question would make sense to ME. Since to me, I've already accomplished what's been mentioned, then I won't waste time piddling around in discussions that's not going anywhere.
Over the years and every now and then there has always been someone to embrace the forums with a bunch technical questions asked only to keep their ego's inflated...
So I just want you to know, your season is now... |
My problem here Mike is that when the comment was make that your mod is lowering the beam current you and I both know what that means. My post was to support your mod in a side door way cause lowering beam current would conclude otherwise.
Now I'm trying not to openly say what this would mean so if you want to stop insulting me, maybe you would like to discuss this in PM. I think I have figured out what your saying from your previous responses and thats whats bothering me. I always looked up to you for your dedication to these mods and this one has knocked me down and I keep going on about it because I just can't believe it.
So I have my answer so I will just let it go without any further comment. I really had the optimistic opinion on this but have been shown that pessimist has prevailed.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | What is the Brightness set to Mike when you have contrast at 100?
And is the voltage for brightness the same as in a stock marquee if measured at the VIM and on the VNB's at the Out Sample before and after it gets to q12?
Just wondering if that voltage changed at all.
Athanasios |
When I calibrated Mike's projector the brightness was set at 50 and the contrast was set to 75. We got good gray tracking there with a tremendously bright image. I think it was something like 22 flt with 50/75. We could increase the contrast to 100 without bloom, but the picture was too bright and tube wear was a concern.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Craig, I just am curious though if Mike's changes altered the Brightness voltage, as brightens has effect on Contrast. Lowering the Brightness will allow you to use more contrast from what I have seen myself. So just wondering if somehow the voltage for brightness was lowered , therefore a brightness of 50 might actually be closer to 30 or 20 as an example.
Athanasios
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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if the brightness voltage is lowered and contrast is now on 100 how can we compare this to a contrast setting on a stock marquee.
is this 100 contrast without blooming with the barco coils or with the thomson coils and at what point will the thomson begin to bloom on the modded marquee and then in comparison with the stock marquee and its voltages at certain settings.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Thanks Craig, I just am curious though if Mike's changes altered the Brightness voltage, as brightens has effect on Contrast. Lowering the Brightness will allow you to use more contrast from what I have seen myself. So just wondering if somehow the voltage for brightness was lowered , therefore a brightness of 50 might actually be closer to 30 or 20 as an example.
Athanasios |
As I said, I calibrated Mike's projector so the black level is where it should be for a proper calibration ie zero IRE is black.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | As I said, I calibrated Mike's projector so the black level is where it should be for a proper calibration ie zero IRE is black. |
Right but this is also true....
| CIR Engineering wrote: | ....don't forget that when you reduce black level (brightness) that the white level (contrast) will drop as well. Running with a brightness at 50 and a contrast at 85-90 will result in a much higher white level than running with brightness at 10 and contrast at 85-90. This will obviously impact blooming.
craigr |
So what if the Brightness or Contrast voltages are not really what a stock marquee has at the same "number"?
What if something changed in either? And a brightness level of 50 in a stock marquee is for example 500mv and in the modified marquee the same brightness level of 50 is 100mv. This would allow the contrast to go up very high and not bloom effectively allowing the black level to stay the same. And if you raise contrast it should affect black level. Raising contrast for me from 55 to 70 i need to lower brightness quite a bit to regain black. So if you raise contrast up to 100 id think you would also need to lower brightness to regain proper black level.
Correct?
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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strange with my contrast at 60 65 or 70 i have perfect blacks with brightness at 50.
i set g2 by looking in the tube with a 22:9 image on a 16:9 raster and set the g2 on where the nonactive image just disappears (to be clear on the tube face that is).
this might of course be so because i havent set it up for 6500k with a meter or white balance with a meter.
my pj does bloom at 60 contrast and 50 brightness i hope the addon board will reduce this blooming.
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