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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
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On a seven channel setup I figured four channels being powered by on XPA-5 and the three front channels can be bi-amped. If bi-amping the center seems overkill, then on channel is leftover.
Initially, I was going to just re-use the Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX that I got back in 2002 (via preouts), but decided to start looking for something new. This was further encouraged as the wife started asking me what I was going to use for her new Paradigm Studio v5 20's in the music area.
Ok, if I re-purpose the old Pioneer Elite to her use then I need an entry-level AVR with preouts, or an entry-level prepro for the theater. While it may seem like I am spending a lot of money, I'd like to think I am looking at the discounted approach as there is no way I could afford a true audiophile amplification approach.
Point in fact, I would have had to spend $2-3K back in 2002 for one of these multi-channel amps. Learning of them for $719 delivered was like finding a bank bag of money on the side of the road. 
Ok, back to the AVR/prepro thingy ... Pioneer wants $800 starting for an Elite AVR with preouts. Denon is $750. Not sure if I can like (trust) Onkyo as every time I read a post it is about them firmware-ing a new product because of a bug. But I an green (newbie) when it comes to dedicated prepro.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | On a seven channel setup I figured four channels being powered by on XPA-5 and the three front channels can be bi-amped. If bi-amping the center seems overkill, then on channel is leftover.
Initially, I was going to just re-use the Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX that I got back in 2002 (via preouts), but decided to start looking for something new. This was further encouraged as the wife started asking me what I was going to use for her new Paradigm Studio v5 20's in the music area.
Ok, if I re-purpose the old Pioneer Elite to her use then I need an entry-level AVR with preouts, or an entry-level prepro for the theater. While it may seem like I am spending a lot of money, I'd like to think I am looking at the discounted approach as there is no way I could afford a true audiophile amplification approach.
Point in fact, I would have had to spend $2-3K back in 2002 for one of these multi-channel amps. Learning of them for $719 delivered was like finding a bank bag of money on the side of the road.
Ok, back to the AVR/prepro thingy ... Pioneer wants $800 starting for an Elite AVR with preouts. Denon is $750. Not sure if I can like (trust) Onkyo as every time I read a post it is about them firmware-ing a new product because of a bug. But I an green (newbie) when it comes to dedicated prepro. |
If I already didn't have a couple of excellent multi-channel amps(Outlaw), I certainly would strongly consider the XPA5's for amplification presently using my Marantz AVR as a Pre-Pro. AVRs on their own always fudge the actual power output anyway since they only mention one or two channels, NOT all seven. The XPA5 gives you 200 ACTUAL watts per channel ALL channels driven, the power per channel you would rarely find in an AVR anyway. Outboard amps give you much more versatility and are much more "future-proof" than expensive AVRs plus they can deal considerably better with impedence issues in certain speakers that some AVRs have problems with. As far as making a choice of AVR, all these brands have had firmware update issues of one form or another, you may just have not heard about the Pioneer or Denon. Other than their customers, they don't like to make it too public. From what I see the Onkyo offers the most features for the money. It is just a matter of budget and personal choice.
As for the potential XPA5 purchase? Go for it, I doubt you will be disappointed. With all these internet-only companies selling these excellent products, the idea of having to spend a ton of money for audiophile performance is one whose ship has "long sailed".
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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When I auditioned my Paradigm Studio v2 100's back in 2002 it was mated to a Marantz receiver. I liked the combination as much as the Pioneer Elite. I already got the XPA-5's (posted pics of them. Looking for an AVR to act as a pre-pro. Thought I was about to get a deal on a Marantz SR6004, but turned out to be open box. If this was local, I'd grab it, but its in Montana. No way Marantz is going to service warranty when not bought through a local boutique dealer (I think).
The out-going Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23TXH seem to meet the bill, but even as out-going models (being replaced next money by the 30/31/32) I can't get anyone, boutique or Bad Buy, to offer me anything off of the MSRP. -->f*ck them!  So, in an economy where one can complain I tell these bozos to go find someone else. I asked bad Buy Magnolia what is exactly 'best' about buying it through them vs. a boutique store I've spent serious coin at before and he said, "we can sell you an extended warranty."
Retard!
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, taking a little information from someone I went looking at a company called DAKmart. I think I've heard of them but then my mind can play tricks on me. 
Anyway, someone suggested I take another look at Denon and specifically the AVR-3808. Denon isn't listing that model as being current, or even near current, but they are touting the AVR-3310/11CI models. DAKmart has the 3310CI in B-stock for $630, but Denon only offers 90-day warranty on their B-stock items. DAKmart supposedly is an authorized reseller.
The alternative (to my surprise) is that Amazon have the AVR-3310CI New (A-stock) for $750. Haven done a healthy business with Amazon I am more inclined to spend the extra $120 to go with them and to get A-stock, especially considering the two-year warranty.
BTW, the AVR-3310CI and AVR-990 seem to be the same AVR. Not sure what the difference is, though, if its so subtle. According to the backpanels the 3310CI has a Zone3 feature. The Amazon link for the AVR-3310CI.
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I remember the 3310CI is for custom installers...there is very little difference.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | When I auditioned my Paradigm Studio v2 100's back in 2002 it was mated to a Marantz receiver. I liked the combination as much as the Pioneer Elite. I already got the XPA-5's (posted pics of them. Looking for an AVR to act as a pre-pro. Thought I was about to get a deal on a Marantz SR6004, but turned out to be open box. If this was local, I'd grab it, but its in Montana. No way Marantz is going to service warranty when not bought through a local boutique dealer (I think).
The out-going Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23TXH seem to meet the bill, but even as out-going models (being replaced next money by the 30/31/32) I can't get anyone, boutique or Bad Buy, to offer me anything off of the MSRP. -->f*ck them! So, in an economy where one can complain I tell these bozos to go find someone else. I asked bad Buy Magnolia what is exactly 'best' about buying it through them vs. a boutique store I've spent serious coin at before and he said, "we can sell you an extended warranty."
Retard! |
Check Accessories4Less. The items are reconditioned and refurbished but excellent prices and the same warranty. They are an authorized Marantz dealer. You can get Marantz 5004 for $499. It is essentially the same as the 6004 without a couple of extra connections and a front panel control cover. It has a little more power but with outboard amps it doesn't matter anyway and all the internal processing is exactly the same as the 6004 which the same outfit sells for $749.
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | When I auditioned my Paradigm Studio v2 100's back in 2002 it was mated to a Marantz receiver. I liked the combination as much as the Pioneer Elite. I already got the XPA-5's (posted pics of them. Looking for an AVR to act as a pre-pro. Thought I was about to get a deal on a Marantz SR6004, but turned out to be open box. If this was local, I'd grab it, but its in Montana. No way Marantz is going to service warranty when not bought through a local boutique dealer (I think).
The out-going Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23TXH seem to meet the bill, but even as out-going models (being replaced next money by the 30/31/32) I can't get anyone, boutique or Bad Buy, to offer me anything off of the MSRP. -->f*ck them! So, in an economy where one can complain I tell these bozos to go find someone else. I asked bad Buy Magnolia what is exactly 'best' about buying it through them vs. a boutique store I've spent serious coin at before and he said, "we can sell you an extended warranty."
Retard! |
Check Accessories4Less. The items are reconditioned and refurbished but excellent prices and the same warranty. They are an authorized Marantz dealer. You can get Marantz 5004 for $499. It is essentially the same as the 6004 without a couple of extra connections and a front panel control cover. It has a little more power but with outboard amps it doesn't matter anyway and all the internal processing is exactly the same as the 6004 which the same outfit sells for $749. |
I can vouch for A4L as well. I purchased a refurbed Onkyo 507 and they replaced it no questions asked when it shut down the first week because of overheating...the second one is going on a year.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Holy cow ... sumer! Thanks for the A4L recommendation. Now I have a couple of resources and a bigger selection to weed through. 
I guess Bad Buys is required to list MAP/MSRP and nothing else online, but their use of Google Ads serves them wrong when J&R Music is posting Half the BB price.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the Denon AVR-3311CI MSRP dropped $300 from the 3310CI MSRP of $1499. Bad Buy's Magnolia (near me) wanted $899 for the 3310 (two units available) and $1099 for the 3311 (5 units available). They would not budge on the discontinued 3310.
On the recommendation of someone I verified an online reseller was a Denon authorized dealer and ordered the 3311CI for $887+delivery. Bad Buy Magnolia is no better than the rest of the company. Thank goodness I didn't buy there.
As for the Emotiva UMC-1 there seems to be a couple of global outstanding issues relating to a) bass management (Emotiva doesn't acknowledge it as a problem) and HDMI pass-through (its changing the color space). I'll let them work on that processor a few more months and re-consider down the line.
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