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EricO
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: Moome VS HD Fury for a Sony G70? |
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I've got my theater room set up. Got my projector & speakers mounted. The only big thing left is getting Blu-Ray to the G70. What is the hot set up for my Sony? The price diff between the Moome and the latest HD Fury is not that great. But is there any advantage one has over the other? All opinions are appreciated! Thanks!
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cinema mad
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi Eric,
The Moome V-2 Full HD HDMI internal cards at this time offer superior performance compared to all else inc Fury...
What Res where you thinking of setting up your G70 at for Blu-Ray play back ? Keeping in mined A CRT will not display 1080p @ 24...
To Get the optimum performance from your G70 A Scaler such as the Lumagen XE/XS or DVDO vp50/pro,
thus allowing for custom timings combined with the Moome IFB-Full HD card is the killer combo...
Cheers..
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:16 am Post subject: |
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1080p 48
or
1920 x 817 @ 48 or 72Hz is a great combo with the G70 from what the guys tell me.
So yes a scaler would be a bonus.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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cinema mad
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: |
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I run 1920 x 817p @ 48= (100.260Mhz) with reduced porch's to eliminate flicker..
1920 x 817p @ 72hz= (157.371Mhz) runs well outside the bandwidth limit of the G70 which is 120mhz...
Cheers...
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: |
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48 Hz or thereabout really never bothered me all that much but then again some people have a real problem with the low refresh rate !
Persistence of vision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision
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_in_peace_
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 152
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cinema mad wrote: | I run 1920 x 817p @ 48= (100.260Mhz) with reduced porch's to eliminate flicker..
1920 x 817p @ 72hz= (157.371Mhz) runs well outside the bandwidth limit of the G70 which is 120mhz...
Cheers... |
1920 x 817p isn't a valid resolution in the moome pdf... does it work anyway?
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cinema mad
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Most all resolutions work perfectly with all Moome cards including the most popular aspect ratios used in the Blu-Ray format "2:35.1=1920x817" 48/72/75Hz and "2:40.1 =1920x800"48/72/75Hz..
Moomes input cards are compatable with resolutions up to 1920x1080p @72/75Hz
Cheers...
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EricO
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:06 am Post subject: Moome it is! |
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Thanks for the info guys! Gotta get one on order this week. 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| cinema mad wrote: | | The Moome V-2 Full HD HDMI internal cards at this time offer superior performance compared to all else inc Fury... |
Upon what do you base this statement? I'm not questioning you as much as wondering about the source of your opinion, since I've never seen any objective comparisons done.
Thanks,
SC
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cinema mad
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Um,
Due to my own & others that have used both and posted there findings,
Quote from CIR,
I actually have the Moome external V2 with MP mods here, the Moome external V1 without mods, and the HDF3, and the HDF2. The Moome external v2 thrashes the HDF2 and is a much better product in terms of image quality and bandwidth. The HDF2 attenuates most of the high frequencies and does not show true 1080p 60Hz. The first Moome external 1.3 v1 also attenuated, but the v2 is very clean and is perfect in that regard.
I have not yet been able to get the HDF3 to work correctly in my system and it is still beta so I can't comment on it just yet (nor am I allowed to). But I will say that the circuit design of the HDF3 is similar to the Moome external, so the two may wind up performing similarly. At that point it will come down to features and price point.
craigr..
Cheers...
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Good to know. Thanks. I'm still surprised that Mike would have been so positive about the HD Fury 2 if what Craig says is true - that it attenuates most of the high frequencies. Crazy.
SC
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Moome internal FULLHD v2 cards are by far the best performing DA transcoders ever produced by anyone for high frequencies. They simply blow all past products out of the water in terms of bandwidth and overall performance and image quality. The next best card (including external transcoders) was John's Sony DVI-IFB. That card looks really sharp, but it is 8-bit color only and is a little noisy, but John's old IFB is still really great IMHO.
I do have screen shots and scope shots to back up what I say. In the coming weeks (or maybe a little longer) I will write a review of almost ALL the internal cards and external transcoders including the old Moome boards and HDF1 and HDF2.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying 
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Good to know. Thanks. I'm still surprised that Mike would have been so positive about the HD Fury 2 if what Craig says is true - that it attenuates most of the high frequencies. Crazy.
SC |
Simply put, Mike missed it None of us are perfect, and Mike just didn't see the issue at first. I pointed it out to him about a year ago, and since he agrees that there are serious issues with the HDF2 bandwidth. The funny thing about BW is that it can sometimes take a while to really notice that there is a problem.
For example. If you upgrade from a card that has 8-bit color to one with 10-bit color, you may at first be impressed because the colors are better. And that might lead to not noticing that the image is actually softer (because there is still more color detail). So the card could have bad attenuation, but other positive things that you notice as well.
The Moome internals are the full package at this point. Excellent frequency response and 10-bit color.
Incidentally, the Moome FULLHD v1 cards have serious attenuation problems as well. I found these problems and brought them to Mike Parker. Mike then redesigned the filtration on the card to fix the problems. We then worked with Moome on the v2 to primarily fix the BW issues.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Good to know. Thanks. I'm still surprised that Mike would have been so positive about the HD Fury 2 if what Craig says is true - that it attenuates most of the high frequencies. Crazy.
SC |
My initial observations of the Fury 2 was good, considering I did not look at the bandwidth on the scope. I only looked at things using basic test patterns. So comparing the Fury 2 to what was already out there, it was great!
Craig later bought it to my attention that the Fury 2 rolled off using the burst test pattern at 1080P. It was when i looked at that pattern I noticed a problem.
And if you see any of these cards on my setup, you'll not notice much of a sharpness difference between them.
Craig has used John's original card as a reference. And I'm very familiar with that card, I had two of the external ones here, but did not like them.
The DVI cards were sharp, but failed a lot of my best test patterns in other performance factors. there's a lot more to signal integrity than sharpness.
It was a little difficult to communicate with Moome when I was working on the card he sent me, it was worse dealing with the Fury guy, because I did not get a response to most of my emails when looking at the Fury 2, so that's why I did not volunteer to be a beta tester on the Fury. With Moome it was just waiting until he read the email.
At this point I would be willing to work with the Fury people on the potential bandwidth issue. i nly hope it would not be waste of time waiting for a response and dealing with a spirit of non cooperation. I could make the card video performance better for sure, but I'll need access to the person that also digitally (programming) tunes the card.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting... Thanks, guys!!! No biggie, Mike! I was just curious...
Craig - Can't wait to read more when you get your "shootout" done... That will be awesome!
So far, I've only seen the HD Fury 1 and the Moome IFB-HD (the one with one component and one HDMI input) on my system. My G70 is pretty well set-up, so Based on what I'd heard, I was expecting to see something... But, if there was any significant difference between the HD Fury and the IFB-HD, I couldn't see it. I didn't do any super-critical examination of patterns or anything - only spent a little while.
But, the one thing that was a deal breaker with the IFB-HD was the fact that every time the PS3 switched resolutions, or I switched sources, I got a quick white/black flicker that is super-obnoxious in a dark room... Since the PS3 switches resolutions about half a dozen times before a Blu-ray movie main feature starts, I was about ready to have an epileptic seizure before the movie ever started. I took it back out of the projector, and haven't used it since. That may not be an issue in newer cards, or with BD players other than the PS3.
SC
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Very interesting... Thanks, guys!!! No biggie, Mike! I was just curious...
Craig - Can't wait to read more when you get your "shootout" done... That will be awesome!
So far, I've only seen the HD Fury 1 and the Moome IFB-HD (the one with one component and one HDMI input) on my system. My G70 is pretty well set-up, so Based on what I'd heard, I was expecting to see something... But, if there was any significant difference between the HD Fury and the IFB-HD, I couldn't see it. I didn't do any super-critical examination of patterns or anything - only spent a little while.
But, the one thing that was a deal breaker with the IFB-HD was the fact that every time the PS3 switched resolutions, or I switched sources, I got a quick white/black flicker that is super-obnoxious in a dark room... Since the PS3 switches resolutions about half a dozen times before a Blu-ray movie main feature starts, I was about ready to have an epileptic seizure before the movie ever started. I took it back out of the projector, and haven't used it since. That may not be an issue in newer cards, or with BD players other than the PS3.
SC |
Most people won't notice the difference. And as picky as I am, Craig is almost worse.
Keep in mind, before we made the changes to the Moome card, the Fury 2 blew it away and did it easily.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | Most people won't notice the difference. And as picky as I am, Craig is almost worse.
Keep in mind, before we made the changes to the Moome card, the Fury 2 blew it away and did it easily. |
I'm probably about as anal as you guys are... Well, I'm as anal as my budget and technical expertise allows, anyway... Which Moome card did the HD Fury 2 blow out of the water?
SC
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | Most people won't notice the difference. And as picky as I am, Craig is almost worse.
Keep in mind, before we made the changes to the Moome card, the Fury 2 blew it away and did it easily. |
I'm probably about as anal as you guys are... Well, I'm as anal as my budget and technical expertise allows, anyway... Which Moome card did the HD Fury 2 blow out of the water?
SC |
FullHD V2
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | Most people won't notice the difference. And as picky as I am, Craig is almost worse.
Keep in mind, before we made the changes to the Moome card, the Fury 2 blew it away and did it easily. |
I'm probably about as anal as you guys are... Well, I'm as anal as my budget and technical expertise allows, anyway... Which Moome card did the HD Fury 2 blow out of the water?
SC |
FullHD V2 |
I think you are confusing the cards now Mike?
Moome's newest card (the one that he is making now for the Marquee and Sony) is the best thing out hands down. The latest Moome is the one to get if you want up to full 1080p 72Hz without attenuation (and it is also the very best for lower resolutions IMHO). The new Moome IFB is also well filtered so the image is clean and not noisy.
All Moome boards prior to the current v2 model attenuated to varying degrees and it was a lot of attenuation (depending on which board you are looking at). None of the Moome boards with analog component ins were very good in terms of noise or bandwidth. Comparing Moome products to HDFury, the HDFury products were better than early Moome boards.
John's early internal Sony IFB could almost do full 1080p 60Hz without attenuation, but it is noisy. The HDFury version one (DVI) actually had pretty good bandwidth, but no where near as good as Moome's current card or John's Sony DVI-IFB.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info... You guys rock!
No, wait - Actually, you guys suck! Now I'm going to have to try an EXT-FULLHD v2.
SC
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