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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: $2K-$3K Digital Projector |
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My friend bought a new home and is looking for a new projector in the $2K-3K range. Any suggestions?
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Panny 4000.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. AE4000. Saw it, and I was really impressed at that price point. It has a zoom lens for automated AT scope setup without an expensive expansion lens or lens sled. First projector under $5000 MSRP that I'd consider building a new HT around.
SC
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Agreed. AE4000. Saw it, and I was really impressed at that price point. It has a zoom lens for automated AT scope setup without an expensive expansion lens or lens sled. First projector under $5000 MSRP that I'd consider building a new HT around.
SC |
I've been thinking of doing a hybrid setup. Still having the Barco for watching tv, playing games and generaly most 16:9 stuff. Then having the panny for scope material. Just an idea.
Oh, I almost forgot. I have seen the Panny in person at a familiar place. I won't say who but he was impressed with it enough to have me stop by to show it off. I did not see any screen door. and being a lcd no rainbows. Which if I am going to have a digital in my ht I am concerned about now since I had the Lasik done last November, and have heard that once you have it done you see the rainbows easier.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Agreed. AE4000. Saw it, and I was really impressed at that price point. It has a zoom lens for automated AT scope setup without an expensive expansion lens or lens sled. First projector under $5000 MSRP that I'd consider building a new HT around.
SC |
Care to expand upon your viewing experience? What was the environment like? Screen? Material viewed through it? Pretty inexpensive at $2K.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Yes, it's very inexpensive at $2k.
I actually haven't even seen the AE4000... I saw the AE3000. The AE4000 is the same basic design, with small improvements for slightly better black level (and on/off), better colors, an improvement calibration setup, and better processing.
The AE3000 was in a dedicated light-controlled room. Screen was about 10' wide, and was Seymour AV material (~1.1 gain, AT) - similar to SMX material. The machine was, for the most part uncalibrated. Very impressive for the money. Here's what I wrote in this thread:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=235616
| ecrabb wrote: | Went to a home theater meet this weekend, and saw two really nice dedicated DIY rooms. Both had AT scope screens, and neither were big budget by any means... One was an RS-25 and the other was a Panasonic AE3000... While I much preferred the image from the RS-25, I could EASILY live with the image from the AE3000 - never mind the AE4000.
Sad as I am to say it, but if I had to start from scratch now, and I had the room to do it, I'd definitely trade a little black level and some other minor visueal artifacts for the visual impact and immersion the big scope screen has. The low-end digitals like the AE4000 are just getting that good. Let's just say I had a pretty good case of HT envy when I left the second, cheaper of the two, DIY HTs. |
| ecrabb wrote: | Look... There are things I don't like about certain digital machines. On the AE3000 in particular, I still notice some pretty bad banding on solid gradient fields, and it becomes painfully obvious during fades. (To be fair, it was worse on the über-expensive DLP Cinema projector at the Avatar 3D screening I saw a month or so ago than it was on the AE3000 I saw over the weekend.) But... and this is a big but... It's not as if the picture from CRT is artifact-free. I mean, you take some bad along with the good. For instance, I've got slight geometric distortion (damn you Sony!) that bugs the crap out of me, I've got a little waviness on the left side of the screen/raster at 1080p, and of course sharpness is far inferior to any 1080p digital. Full fades to black still make me giddy, but I think at this point, I'd be ready to let that go to get some of the other advantages.
The main problem I have is that what I'm in really in love with is the AT scope setup... You basically have that already. I just don't have the room to do it, or I think I would. But, the digital does make it really easy - especially the zoom feature on the AE3000/4000. That's pretty trick. No more expensive expansion lenses and sleds. If watching movies is more important to a guy than obsessing over one aspect of picture quality, digital is getting damn good - even at the low end. |
Basically, at this point, digital is good enough, that I'd take the disadvantages because they're outweighed by the tremendous advantages. The biggest two for me are the ease with which you can do an constant-height AT/scope setup, and the small size/noise factors.
I'm just impressed that it's getting as good as it is at this price point. Not everybody will feel the same.
If you get a chance to see one in action - especially on a scope screen - do it.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Agreed. AE4000. Saw it, and I was really impressed at that price point. It has a zoom lens for automated AT scope setup without an expensive expansion lens or lens sled. First projector under $5000 MSRP that I'd consider building a new HT around.
SC |
I've been thinking of doing a hybrid setup. Still having the Barco for watching tv, playing games and generaly most 16:9 stuff. Then having the panny for scope material. Just an idea.
Oh, I almost forgot. I have seen the Panny in person at a familiar place. I won't say who but he was impressed with it enough to have me stop by to show it off. I did not see any screen door. and being a lcd no rainbows. Which if I am going to have a digital in my ht I am concerned about now since I had the Lasik done last November, and have heard that once you have it done you see the rainbows easier. |
Id do it the opposite in my setup, CRT blend for scope, panny for 1.78/1.85
Review here
http://www.televisions.com/projectors/panasonic/Panasonic-PT-AE-4000.php
Athanasios
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Not everybody is crazy enough to pull off a blend, Nashou. 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: |
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The Epsons are good as well.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I have not seen a digital projector in 2-3 years. I wonder what the current P&C are between the current generation LCD, DLP, and LCoS are at the OP's $2-3K.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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They're more subtle differences at this point, Wan.
- LCD usually has slightly lower on/off and higher black level compared to DLP, and also a lower pixel fill ratio (screen door), but is cheaper and doesn't have rainbows or "mosquito dithering" like DLP. Some people don't like the look of LCD.
- DLP typically has slightly better black levels, on/off, and ANSI, but is typically a little more money and exhibits the aforementioned DLP artifacts. Some people don't like the look of DLP.
- LCoS generally isn't at the $2-3k price point. More like $4k-5k. In return, you get a little more CRT/film-like picture, DLP-comparable black level and on/off, but without the DLP artifacts. Some people don't like the look of LCoS.
Notice I put a "some people don't like the look..." statement after each one. The differences are really getting subtle for most viewers - especially comparing projectors/technologies at similar price points. Some of the differences I mentioned barely exist on certain models, or are non-issues for most people's viewing angles. For instance, while LCD has a slightly lower pixel fill rate, most people don't even notice it at 1080p and typical viewing angles. The Panasonic AE-3000/4000 also have some sort of diffusion filter that kind of blurs the gaps in the pixels - and it works.
You really just need to go see a few machines and have a look for yourself. A couple of years ago, there wasn't a single digital under $5000 that I was even vaguely interested in, or that I'd actually want in my room. Things have definitely changed - and I'm pretty picky about how the image looks, and there are several LCD and LCoS machines I'd be satisfied with at this point - especially if I could have a new room with 10'-wide AT scope screen! 
SC
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ralpharch
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Derwood
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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At that price point I think the new LG cf181d may be the best choice, especially if the room is multi-use, screen is large, or room doesn't have good light control. SRXD and 900 calibrated lumens.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/lg/cf181d/index.php
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Its interesting just as digitals have come down strongly on price for the basic 1080P, mating them with something like the Screen innovations Black Diamond screen makes the price jump $2.5-3K. Still, I'd be curious to see a well calibrated LCoS projector on that screen material in a room with absolute light control.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I read that before I started this thread. I thought I should get some more opinions.
I did a little research on the Panny and the other PJs mentioned in this thread. I couldn't decide which would be best so I went with what seemed to be the safest choice: the Panny.
Thanks for the help!
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Phil. You done this yet?
The Panny is pretty good at the price. I personally have still not "warmed up" to LCD yet. I prefer the really high ANSI and "pop" of DLPs. The right one calibrated right can overcome most of the artifacts.
If you want to bring him by my house, he can see a CIH setup with a DLP that he can do for that money.
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akajester
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dave, what model DLP are you referring to that's at the same price point. Just curious.
thanks!
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| akajester wrote: | Dave, what model DLP are you referring to that's at the same price point. Just curious.
thanks! |
There are a few options. The BenQ W5000 would be on my list if you like pop and sharpness. They are about $2K now.
EDIT: one other thing, I was pegging that price point because it leaves $1000 for a not too shaby anamorphic lens. I'd definately do a DW screen. I'm running a 48"x114" curved DW screen and am very happy with the performance with my fairly bright DLP.
EDIT 2: I should say, I also am not a fan of zooming for CIH. I will take the very minor abberations at the edge of the screen for the extra brightness of an anamorphic lens. Additionally, a PJ side masking is a pain to get right and I think the light spill from zooming is VERY distracting ESPECIALLY if using an auto iris.
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tbase1
Joined: 13 May 2006
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Location: Medina Ohio
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I own the panasonic ae4000 an for the money ($2,000) it's a great projector.
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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I know 2 people that own the epson 8500ub and love it.
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