CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

My brother is looking at a major upgrade on the sound in his HT. He's looking at gear I've never heard of -- hell, some of this stuff costs more than I spent on my whole HT. Smile

He asked me for opinions and I told him I know nothing about that range of equipment, but I knew some guys who did!

Here are his comments:

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject:

The Outlaw 997 has been vaporware since CEDIA 2008!!! I've been laughing about that with a buddy (who's an Outlaw fan) for well over a year. He gave up and bought an Integra and never looked back.

I've heard nothing but praise for the Emotiva amps - both 2-ch and multi-channel. If I were in the market for amps right now, I'd almost certainly try an Emotiva.

I haven't researched the UMC-1, though it looks to be mostly the equal of something like the Integra DHC-40.1, but at nearly half the price.

Is he really considering both a $4000 AVR, and a $1400 separates combo at the same time? That's all over the place!

I'm not a big NAD and Adcom fan like he is, so that changes my perspective, but I can tell you I'd have no interest in a really expensive AVR anymore. After having separate amplifiers, I'll never go back to an AVR. Plus, at that price point, those things depreciate like crazy. In a few years, he'd be lucky to get a grand for it. That's one thing I really like about separates... Keep the amplification (which doesn't obsolete fast) separate from the processor (which obsoletes at light speed).

I think if I were him, and he's interested in the Emotiva gear, he should try it. They have a 30-day "try it at home" satisfaction guarantee, so he doesn't really have much to lose. If for some reason, he doesn't like the stuff, he can send it back and go shopping for some really overpriced NAD gear. Wink

SC

**kal** · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject:

Emotiva is generally well regarded. They had tons of delays too. In their defence, the chip supplier took forever so a bunch of pre-pro's were delayed quite a long time.

Many went the Integra route instead. They make some nice stuff too but they're a "tradional" company (not online only sales like Emotiva). You truly do save a ton of $$ because of the way Emotiva markets and sells without distributors and retailers. Instead of 3 people wanting to make money you only have one.

I'm on the fence too between going for something much cheaper like Emotiva or the opposite end with something Anthem. I've been saying that for over a year now however if not longer. I'm saving money since I have no time to redo by entire rack setup Smile

(I want to get all rack mount and do it right).

Kal

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

Kal,
If your still listening to lossy DD/DTS, it’s well worth the $700. The difference is remarkable.

Mike

CRT_Ben · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1684 Location: Northern Virginia

Oh man...this thread is awesome! I'm excited, I've been waiting for a reasonably priced lossless audio pre/pro, and the UMC-1 looks great! All the audio features I want, and it's also enough to handle all my video switching needs so I can buy a cheaper DVI-only scaler like the HDP... Very Happy

**kal** · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject:

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Look at eh Onkyo pro model PR-SC886

http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC886P&class=Preamplifier&p=i

It looks like a great piece, I have been an Adcom fan an user for years and still have and use in my theater their Amps and the 830 Pre/Pro. Analog outs from my BD players its a nice comprimise for now, HDMI is in my future and the PR-SC886 is most likely the PRe/Pro i'll get to match to my 5503 Adcom 3 channel 200 wpc amp.

I think Bob Stepahn here is a dealer(boilermaker) he might be able to get a good deal but i have seen them on the net for 1500 or so.

Rear view link

http://www.onkyopro.com/zoom.cfm?class=Preamplifier&m=PR-SC886P#

Athanasios

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:29 am Post subject:

Athanasios, I have the Integra version of the 886, the Integra DHC-9.9...

I really like it... It's probably the nicest piece of gear I've ever owned. The 886 and 9.9 are actually a generation old now, though. In the Integra line, they added to the 9.9 two more prepros, one cheaper and one more expensive. The 80.1 is like a 9.9, but with more features, while the much cheaper 40.1 is like the 9.9, but without balanced XLR outs (which is fine if you're going to use any of the slew of amps without balanced inputs - like the Emotiva), cheaper Faroudja scaling (which is fine if you're going to use an outboard scaler anyway), but with 6 HDMI inputs. The one thing I really dislike about my 9.9 is only 4 HDMI inputs.

Anyway, check out the 9.9 - I paid just about the same as the price you mentioned - maybe a bit more - or the 40.1 if you don't need balanced outputs... MSRP is $1200 for the 40.1, so I'd imagine sale price would be closer to a grand or so.

http://integrahometheater.com/prod_class.cfm?class=Preamplifier

SC

HogPilot · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject:

The UMC-1 sounds like a great piece of gear except that it seems to have some unresolved bugsper the user thread over on AVS . Aside from shutting off without warning, it also appears that its EmoQ room correction has some pretty major issues.

I know there's talk of some firmware releases to fix this stuff, but for the time being I personally wouldn't buy one in its current state. The Onkyo and Integra pre/pros seem like a great value. It's a shame that Pioneer doesn't make any pre/pros based on their SC-25 and SC-27 - they'd probably pose an even better value than the Onkyo/Integra gear. I have an SC-07 and absolutely love that thing.

greg_mitch · Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 5320

Bucketfoot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject:

The problem with these things is they are REALLY complex these days... Switching/routing, transcoding, up/down conversion, decoding of a plethora of formats, processing, EQ... The list goes on. I don't think a lot of these CE companies have been well prepared for the sheer size of the software development process, and all that entails. Think of the testing with so many different sources and displays. It gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking about it.

I haven't read that thread so I don't know how severe the bugs are in the UMC-1, but Integra pissed a lot of people off over the predecessor to my DHC-9.9, the DTC-9.8. That's a big company with lots of resources, and even they had some serious bugs. My 9.9 even had some bugs, though it was significantly rarer circumstances that most of the issues occurred, and most have been fixed with a few (not technically user-installable) firmware updates...

Not excusing anybody, but as these things get more and more like small computers, they start acting like small computers.

SC

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject:

You think, Mike? I figured anymore, even if there are what look like discrete buttons, that the buttons were just software input triggers to trigger the same logic the buttons on the remote do. I just assumed practically everything was controlled virtually at this point.

SC

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

Maybe your right....It's hard to say without really seeing how it's made. It could be your Integra has micro controller for the buttons that send serial data to the the main controller. That's the way we do it with our RV lighting controls. Micros are so cheap today you can split simple tasks to their own processor, it keeps the software simple and more modular. The remote receiver would work the same way. Where everything on the UMC I think is controlled with the cursor buttons, those tasks could be broken down the same way, it really depends on how it's designed.

The parts count is amazing low judging by this image. There may be other boards mounted below the two shown near the rear of the unit. The big chip is probably the Video Processor.

Just the HDMI crap EDID would scare the crap out of me...Even a big company like ATI/AMD is having problem with that on their 5XXX cards.

Mike

greg_mitch · Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 5320

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:37 am Post subject:

Bucketfoot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

What a change. When I started working for HP 30+ years ago, they were maniacally focused on software quality -- because the software got burned into ROM (*not* PROM, but ROM -- i.e. you had to build a new chip to fix a bug). Bugs DID NOT HAPPEN in released products. Period.

Things work just a leetle bit differently now...

Bucketfoot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO