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yonexsp
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Mark_A_W wrote: | Curt, that's because your livelihood depends on my logic making no sense. You will have to change your primary focus from CRT to digital, or audio, or something, over the next few years.
Basically, the HDMI stuff is overpriced. How many XG HDMI cards did Moome end up selling? Bugger all IIRC. Everything sells at the right price, therefore the price was too high. (And yes, there comes a point when it's no longer worth the bother.) |
No, I realize that CRT will be more or less dead in 5-10 years, but I'll bet those left here will all have Cine 9s or 9500Ultras.  I'm well set up already, preparing for a post CRT world. I'd be further along.. but I've sold $35K in projectors in the last 2 weeks (I'm not exaggerating), so more work on a new site is on the backburner.
I will just agree to disagree with you regarding pricing.. When I saw the first generation Fury and what went into the manufacturing of it, I thought it would have cost far more than it did. IN fact, I'd go as far as saying that I would not consider it worth my while to manufacture ANY of the third party items sold on this site. It's easy to sit behind a computer and bitch about the pricing of someone, be it the price of electronics, or the price that Sparky charges to adopt out a rescued dog.
I really don't think that Moome would hvae sold many more cards had his HDMI cards come out at say $149. I did that little experiment and dropped some CRT prices by 30% or so before Christmas. Non one bit. I kept my pricing consistent on the site, and as I just said, sold $35K worth of sets in the last 2 weeks. I'm now backed up 2 weeks, that's how long it will take to get the 15 or so sets out the door that I sold.
BTW, I just ordered a Sony card from Moome, and he sold one for the XG to one of my customers last week. I also ordered 3 Furys this weekend, with 2 more to be ordered as soon as the deposits come in for the set sales. |
$149, I'll buy one, and be happy to send the money today!
$350, to much for what it is, as I have a HTPC as well same as Mark. Which is also used for games for the kids, surfing the web, and as a media server. I paid $399 for it at Bestbuy, runs great over VGA.
So if anyone is willing to sell me a new Moome HDMI XG card for $149 it's a deal, as the current moome DVI card I have I paid that but it sucks ass, as the HDCP sucks ass on the cards before. I use it for component only, which kinda defeats the purpose but anyway. It was a real disappointment.
Oh, and the fact that Gary Murrell was shilling about the products before did not do it any favors, man that guy was a douche.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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OK, I'll look at it from another point just to counter a couple here.
I personally would never use an HTPC in my own HT system. It's not nearly as convenient as booting a BR player, it's harder for the kids to use, etc. Now, I use a Fury rather than the Moome card, as I got it here first, and it saved running an HDMI cable to the projector.
I don't spend enough critical viewing in my own HT to worry about the differences between the Moome card and the Fury, although general consensus is the Moome card looks better than the Fury signal. The Fury is convenient for me.
As for the HDCP sucking, I believe that was pretty much ALL cards in the first generation of DVI/HDMI/HDCP. THere were nothing but problems a few years ago, which is also why I personally didn't get involved in the selling of any DVI.HDMI product.
It just floors me though that people here that I thought were knowledgeable about electronics, the cost of R&D and the cost of manufacturing of a niche product would bitch about both the Fury and Moome products. I've seen more than one post complaining about the 'obsolescence' of the Fury, yet they are doing a trade in program. Find me ONE other manufacturer that's doing that with older products.
Certainly none of the 'big' manufacturers offer a return policy or trade in on receivers or BR players or whatnot.
Oh well, I guess you can't please everyone.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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> Find me ONE other manufacturer that's doing that with older products. <
DVDO.
_________________
- Tim
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: |
And hundreds of dollars on a unnecessary widget to connect to is ludicrous - you can just plug a PC straight into the projector, that's what they were designed for after all. |
Yep, just get a super powered PC, and from there purchase and install all the special software and hardware necessary to turn it into an HTPC. Then simply prepare yourself to spend the next 6 months tweaking the software and dealing with other upgrades and downloads you'll need to get everything to where it needs to be. And don't forget the special fans you'll need to lower the fan noise, because they can be very noisy.
once all that's done. You'll need the real estate to put it, with the biggest problem being where to put the keyboard, and how do you use it in the theater.
When that's also done, which is usually about 6k hours later, you'll have something that's 300 times larger than anything Moome or anyone else has to offer. Gates operating system, so there's a certain level of frustration already built in, which should also keep you with something to do and I'm sure should almost eliminate any boredom from your life.
One other good thing about owning an HTPC. If you know absolutely nothing about PC's, that will all change within the first 2 months after connecting it to your system.
-----------
Oh, and some of the systems i get to play with has these huge commercial media servers that are called NODES. Some systems have at least four of them in a rack. Each one has 64gigs of ram, running Windows Professional 64 operating system. now when you want to talk about HTPC's, these monsters are Chief.
And with all that goes into them and all the special people it takes to put them together and tweak them...... ah I'll much rather not say.
Anyway, some of these same systems seem to be running a Linyx operating system (Redhat), and are the only HTPC or media server that I've seen that was both simple and stable. Anything that seems to have the Windows logo on it........ well I'll leave that alone also..
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for writing the post I was too lazy to write, Mike! 
SC
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | Ken commented:
> 1st the HDFury1 was like $99... <
Nope. This is part of your fallacy. While the HDFury1 is "like $99" now, it didn't start out at that price. And if you added in the options for the v1 that are now standard on the v3 (power supplies, cables, etc.), I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the price was about the same. Thus your basic premise, and the title of your thread, are wrong straight out of the gate. |
Correct. The HDfury1 was originally $149 for basic kit and the $199 for the complete kit with power supply.
Today you get the Hdfury2 for the same price with more cables, a power supply, and a bunch of other advantanges.
The HDfury3 is new with completely redesigned RGB path, HDMI 1.3, 2 HDMI inputs with a built in auto switcher.
| Quote: | | So, essentially, you're faulting them for dropping the price on their v1 model, yet keeping it around as a more cost-effective option, for those who can't justify or afford the best. That seems a bit disingenuous. Their prices also include worldwide priority shipping, which makes them an even better deal (but hides the cost of the unit itself, which is less). |
Yes, free shipping has also always been included. What's new is that now fast (1-2 day) FREE FedEx shipping to US/Canada where all duties/fees are paid for up front is also included.
Also new is that free return FedEx shipping is paid for during the 1 year warranty period from anywhere in the world if you need to get a unit replaced, even for international orders. This is actually completely unheard of. I know of no company in the world that will pay for the return shipping for their products internationally. Some may do it if you bitch and complain, but here it's a stated policy.
We also include one on one tech support from A/V experts like myself and Jeremy. Unlike most companies, you won't get form letter responses like "did you plug it in?" from us (not to toot our own horn). 
Other advantages are listed here: https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=14770.html
| Mark_A_W wrote: | | I have compared the Moome DVI card and the Moome ISS card, and they both had issues (black level/bleeding + HDMI compatibility issues on the ISS card, and the DVI was too hot), RGBHV was visibly better. I have not compared the later stuff. |
While that comparison is valid, it's not really relevant. Moome's DVI card is incredibly old and has been discontinued for almost ~5 years now. Moome himself has said that the quality was not very good. He's been through 3-4 revisions since then with his products. You need to compare with something built recently (even the HDfury1 would be an advantage).
Basing your conclusion that RGB is better than using any HDMI converter when the last converter you used was Moome's DVI means your conclusion is irrelevant.
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | > Find me ONE other manufacturer that's doing that with older products. <
DVDO. |
You're right!
I could counter with Mark's same argument though.. why are the new scalers SOOOO expensive?
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yonexsp
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | VideoGrabber wrote: | > Find me ONE other manufacturer that's doing that with older products. <
DVDO. |
You're right!
I could counter with Mark's same argument though.. why are the new scalers SOOOO expensive? |
Their not, DVDO came out with the DVDO Edge for $799, which is significantly cheaper than any model before with it's feature set.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yonexsp wrote: | | Their not, DVDO came out with the DVDO Edge for $799, which is significantly cheaper than any model before with it's feature set. |
Which I would counter with the fact that DVDO designed the Edge SPECIFICALLY AS A LOW-COST MODEL WITH A MUCH REDUCED FEATURE SET compared to their more expensive models (current and previous).
SC
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Kal wrote:
> Aslo new is that free return FedEx shipping is paid for... <
Aslo, hmmm. Isn't that somewhere in Norway? No, wait. That's Oslo. Nevermind.
P.S. Don't you just love it when people poke fun at completely trivial typos?
_________________
- Tim
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | Kal wrote:
> Aslo new is that free return FedEx shipping is paid for... <
Aslo, hmmm. Isn't that somewhere in Norway? No, wait. That's Oslo. Nevermind.
P.S. Don't you just love it when people poke fun at completely trivial typos? |
As a matter of fact YES. 
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Greg, that was a bit of hyperbole. But, honestly, after watching Avatar and seeing the fades to black in the trailers, I was still pretty disappointed. Not in the black level itself, but the dynamic range. I saw posterization in the low-IRE fades to black. You can find my comments on it in one of the 3D threads. I HATE digital artifacts. Pixels, banding, posterization, noise. I HATE it when artifacts remind me I'm watching digital.
To sort of get back to the topic, my point was that there are still no <$2000 digitals (the AE4000 included) that make me want divest from my CRT. That may change in a year or two, but in the immediate, I would have no problem spending $200 or $300 on repairs or improvements for my CRT, because A) most of the equipment can be resold to recoup some of the investment, and B) anything else I'd be willing to replace the CRT with would be at least 8-10 times the price. Basically, short of something in the class of Art's setup, or possibly a JVC RS2/RS20, I haven't yet seen a digital that I felt compelled to spend the money on to replace what I have - what I'm already thrilled with.
Regardless, I still don't understand the "These add-ons are so expensive, I'm gonna have to switch to digital" thought. Am I the only one baffled by the what sentiment essentially amounts to: "These $300 add-ons are ridiculous, so I'm going to have to get rid of my CRT projector and buy a $2000 digital". Huh? 
SC |
Crabb,
You are comparing new digital to used CRT. What if I told you that you could buy a used VW-60 for $1500 or how about the RS2 B-stock for $2200? There are some decent deals to be had in digital land, which kind of changes the dynamic slightly.
I will start a new thread for this, because the topic has kind of drifted to value.
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