CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[yonexsp]

[Spanky Ham]

[Elaine Benes]

There's a couple of HDMI transcoders on Amazon for under $80. Two different producers...

[ecrabb]

There's no question that the ~$1500 digitals keep getting better, or that that's accelerating the depreciation of our CRTs. I've said many times before, the size and weight, noise, and install/setup are huge drawbacks for many. Personally, I'd love to get rid of the noise. I'm an audio guy, too and in that regard, CRT is inferior.

Now, the reason I haven't switched, nor will I for at least a couple of years, is that for $1500, there is still no digital that will give me the picture I get from my current machine. Not even close. Yeah, I can get some better ANSI contrast, a little more brightness, and a quiet little box, but in exchange, I'll get visible pixels from my seating position, possibly banding, an elevated black level, and probably dithering, too. I have zero interest in single-chip DLP or LCD at the <$2000 price point. I think they still suck. Sorry, I do.

So, for me at least, I think it makes sense to sell my HD Fury and buy an HD Fury 3. If I get two more years out of it before I switch to digital, then sell it for $100, that's something like $100 total to get the absolute best PQ I can get out of my machine. I have no problem with that at all. Even if I was starting from scratch, I wouldn't have a problem with the price.

SC

[greg_mitch]

[ecrabb]

Greg, that was a bit of hyperbole. But, honestly, after watching Avatar and seeing the fades to black in the trailers, I was still pretty disappointed. Not in the black level itself, but the dynamic range. I saw posterization in the low-IRE fades to black. You can find my comments on it in one of the 3D threads. I HATE digital artifacts. Pixels, banding, posterization, noise. I HATE it when artifacts remind me I'm watching digital.

To sort of get back to the topic, my point was that there are still no <$2000 digitals (the AE4000 included) that make me want divest from my CRT. That may change in a year or two, but in the immediate, I would have no problem spending $200 or $300 on repairs or improvements for my CRT, because A) most of the equipment can be resold to recoup some of the investment, and B) anything else I'd be willing to replace the CRT with would be at least 8-10 times the price. Basically, short of something in the class of Art's setup, or possibly a JVC RS2/RS20, I haven't yet seen a digital that I felt compelled to spend the money on to replace what I have - what I'm already thrilled with.

Regardless, I still don't understand the "These add-ons are so expensive, I'm gonna have to switch to digital" thought. Am I the only one baffled by the what sentiment essentially amounts to: "These $300 add-ons are ridiculous, so I'm going to have to get rid of my CRT projector and buy a $2000 digital". Huh?

SC

[Mark_A_W]

[ecrabb]

How much did the PC cost, Mark?

SC

[Mark_A_W]

Lots, it's a monster.

But it does many things - I'm typing this on the PC that runs my HT. Plays games, does CAD, browses web, etc.

No one part cost as much as a new HDMI transcoder, and it came with a DVI to VGA dongle for free.

[Curt Palme]

So by your logic Mark, a water pump for a 1980 car should be about $1.00, because the car isn't worth more than $300?

My repair rate for a Sony 12XX should be $2.00 per hour because the set isn't worth anything?

Give your head a shake!

No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't like the price, simply do without.

[Curt Palme]

So by your logic Mark, a water pump for a 1980 car should be about $1.00, because the car isn't worth more than $300?

My repair rate for a Sony 12XX should be $2.00 per hour because the set isn't worth anything?

Give your head a shake!

No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't like the price, simply do without.

[Mark_A_W]

I did go without.

I sold my ISS card.


Refer to my other comments about you spending 6 hours repairing a $20 switcher card. And a 12xx isn't worth fixing anymore, unless it's a 1292. Hell, I have an 808 in the shed that's not worth a thing (need a green tube).

And yes, for a 1980 car you go to pick-a-part and pull out another water pump for next to nothing.

[Curt Palme]

Yes, you can (water pump). And if you're a poor college kid, maybe you'll do just that. But.. if the car has low miles, runs well, and heck, maybe it has sentimental value, then you'll understand the value of spending $100 (or $50 or whatever) for a new or rebuilt water pump.

Take your logic and go to a car dealership, and try and argue that the new water pump should only be $5.00.

Repairs to an old home are as much or more than to a new one. Tubes for a 'worthless' old tube stereo amp are as much or more than they were 20 years ago.

I just don't get your logic...it makes no sense.

[Curt Palme]

Yes, you can (water pump). And if you're a poor college kid, maybe you'll do just that. But.. if the car has low miles, runs well, and heck, maybe it has sentimental value, then you'll understand the value of spending $100 (or $50 or whatever) for a new or rebuilt water pump.

Take your logic and go to a car dealership, and try and argue that the new water pump should only be $5.00.

Repairs to an old home are as much or more than to a new one. Tubes for a 'worthless' old tube stereo amp are as much or more than they were 20 years ago.

I just don't get your logic...it makes no sense.

[Mark_A_W]

Curt, that's because your livelihood depends on my logic making no sense. You will have to change your primary focus from CRT to digital, or audio, or something, over the next few years.

A home doesn't depreciate, it increases in value, it is worth fixing.

I wouldn't buy a new pump for a 1980 car (unless it was a very special car...but to me, no car is special, I hate the frickin things, I ride a bike whenever I can).


And I have a tube amp. A single ended triode class A amp. I don't use it, as my solid state gear is better in almost every way.



Basically, the HDMI stuff is overpriced. How many XG HDMI cards did Moome end up selling? Bugger all IIRC. Everything sells at the right price, therefore the price was too high. (And yes, there comes a point when it's no longer worth the bother.)

[mp20748]

[greg_mitch]

Did you just compare getting attached to a pet to the home theater hobby?

Step outside the lab a bit more Mike!

[ecrabb]

Greg, I could be mistaken, but rather than the direct comparison you implied, I think the takeaway from Mike's post was that just because YOU think something is of little value, doesn't mean it isn't worth more to others - in one way or another.

SC

[greg_mitch]

I know what he meant, I'm not that stupid. But the analogy was about a living thing...

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[AnalogRocks]

If it's old it's usually better, and restoration and saving it, is much more fun than buying a new anything.
I had a friend that was into the Ford plan. He would lease a new car or truck every 2 years like clock work and never stopped paying. That to me is ridiculous. I took my ( then ) 10 year old car and rebuilt it, with upgraded parts, spent $2100 and didn't have to touch it for over a year. No payments, no issues.

$30 buck for a water pump? So what? I've spent thousands on my cars and the newest is 1994.

The current project is 1988 and my daily driver is a 1985. I don't give a rats ass about what other people think my car's worth. I had a guy today balk at the figure I gave him on the current project car. He's a tight wad. He believes old cars are worthless and should cost next to nothing.

I disagree.

When I bought my 1988 I asked around at what the price should be. People thought I was crazy to pay what I did. F'kem!
Something is worth what people want to pay for it. I saw it, I wanted it, I bought it.

Some of the people that buy the Moome EXT's and HDFury's have $3500-7000 into their TV's. Why not add a $200-300 device to make it work with the latest and greatest? Most people just want it to go.

Plus there's the WA Factor. I've seen it countless times.
Someone will email me saying " My wife will divorce me if I have to scrap this $6000 TV that I told her would last for 10-15 years just so I can play my HDMI only cable box on it" So you look at it this way: $300 for an HDMI to YPbPr converter or loose half of what you own in the divorce.

[AnalogRocks]

If it's old it's usually better, and restoration and saving it, is much more fun than buying a new anything.
I had a friend that was into the Ford plan. He would lease a new car or truck every 2 years like clock work and never stopped paying. That to me is ridiculous. I took my ( then ) 10 year old car and rebuilt it, with upgraded parts, spent $2100 and didn't have to touch it for over a year. No payments, no issues.

$30 buck for a water pump? So what? I've spent thousands on my cars and the newest is 1994.

The current project is 1988 and my daily driver is a 1985. I don't give a rats ass about what other people think my car's worth. I had a guy today balk at the figure I gave him on the current project car. He's a tight wad. He believes old cars are worthless and should cost next to nothing.

I disagree.

When I bought my 1988 I asked around at what the price should be. People thought I was crazy to pay what I did. F'kem!
Something is worth what people want to pay for it. I saw it, I wanted it, I bought it.

Some of the people that buy the Moome EXT's and HDFury's have $3500-7000 into their TV's. Why not add a $200-300 device to make it work with the latest and greatest? Most people just want it to go.

Plus there's the WA Factor. I've seen it countless times.
Someone will email me saying " My wife will divorce me if I have to scrap this $6000 TV that I told her would last for 10-15 years just so I can play my HDMI only cable box on it" So you look at it this way: $300 for an HDMI to YPbPr converter or loose half of what you own in the divorce.