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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: Another HTPC update thread... |
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Hello,
My HTPC has been a bit lacking lately, and I would like some suggestions on what to update that would give me the best bang for my buck.
My current specs are:
Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 Motherboard
2 Gigabyte Kingston HyperX DDR2 Ram (4 512MB sticks)
Nvidia Geforce 7950GT PCI-E
AMD Athlon X2 4800+ clocked at 2.65Ghz
LG BD/HD-DVD combo drive
Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit
Right now I use the PC with Windows 7, and use media center for music (~600 albums) pictures (~20,000), and BD rips with FLAC audio (~100) via media browser.
Everything works for the most part but I do have an issue sometimes with the MKV rips freezing, and also issues with the interface throughout media center, especially in the music library being a little slow to respond.
I would like to simply have a more responsive system while spending no more than I need to in order to get it.
What would you recommend? Faster CPU, more ram, better video card? All of the above?
Thanks!
Erik
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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It's a tough call...Really kind of depends if you have a way to get rid of or use the old hardware. The newer i5 and i3 "Clarksdale" Intel chips along with the Intel H55 based motherboard are just starting to hit the streets. AMD also has a Quad Core Athlon II that has had great reviews. You are kind of at a cross roads now with the DDR2 ram, as all the newer motherboards seem to be only supporting DDR3.
The biggest question is do you start from scratch or use some of what you have and compromise slightly? You might start with updating your video card and see if it helps performance of what you currently have. It would still be compatible with newer motherboards/CPU combinations. In my ripper box I run an NVidia 9500 GT simular to the one below. Mine has a small fan where this one is passive cooled probably better for an HPTC.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034
If you want to try ATI you might pick up one of these. If you game, these card would probably not be the right choice.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161282
Now there are also a ton of options if you want to give an integrated graphics controller a shot.
Mike
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
The biggest question is do you start from scratch or use some of what you have and compromise slightly?
Mike |
I would prefer to keep most of what I have and only upgrade components. It looks like I could get an Athlon X2 6400+ 3.2Ghz dual core for around $50, 4GB of DDR2 Ram for about another $50, and maybe another $50 for a new video card. This would keep the total upgrade cost well under $200, and hopefully extend the life of my HTPC for another year or so.
FWIW in the Windows 7 experience index my RAM has the lowest rating at 5.5, then the CPU at 5.7, everything else is 5.9. I don't know if this is really meaningful, but going by those numbers it would seem the RAM, and CPU would be the first upgrades?
I don't need to turn my HTPC up to 11, but right now I feel like it's about a 6, and 8, or 9 would be nice, and likely "loud enough" for me. 
My concern is that I may put in a 3.2Ghz dual core Athlon, double the RAM, and a better video card, and still find it too slow.
Erik
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Taking a quick look at both of the video cards you suggested it appears that in general both of those cards score lower in the WEI for the desktop AERO enhancement category. Like I said I'm unsure if these numbers really mean anything, but at the same time I would hate to spend money on a downgrade. I don't believe I'm using H/A on any video files on my HTPC so even if these cards are accelerated I wouldn't reap the benefit.
I'm becoming convinced that my best first step is a faster CPU, but like always I would like a second, or third opinion on that before I go out and buy.
The other option, aside from a new build is to install Windows 7 on my iMac and use that. 
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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If your getting that high of score then something else is wrong. 2 GB should be plenty for playing MKV's, 32 Bit windows doesn't support more than 3.25 GB of ram anyway. What's your CPU useage when playing MKV's, and what player are you using?
Mike
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Is all that media stored locally or stored over the network on a NAS?
THe one thing that I have found is that media center will get a lot more sluggish if you are trying to pull in 80 gigs of music over the network as opposed to just having a usb drive attached to it. Maybe try that.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | If your getting that high of score then something else is wrong. 2 GB should be plenty for playing MKV's, 32 Bit windows doesn't support more than 3.25 GB of ram anyway. What's your CPU useage when playing MKV's, and what player are you using?
Mike |
I'll go do some tests and get back to you. From memory CPU usage is usually between 60-80%
I use 7MC for playback, and have used VLC on occasion, but VLC has a habit of stuttering every few minutes. I used to use the KM player but it doesn't seem to play nice with Windows 7?
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| greg_mitch wrote: | Is all that media stored locally or stored over the network on a NAS?
THe one thing that I have found is that media center will get a lot more sluggish if you are trying to pull in 80 gigs of music over the network as opposed to just having a usb drive attached to it. Maybe try that. |
All of the media at this time is local. In the future I may have BD rips streaming over a gigabit network connection, but I plan to always have the music and pictures stored locally.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: | If your getting that high of score then something else is wrong. 2 GB should be plenty for playing MKV's, 32 Bit windows doesn't support more than 3.25 GB of ram anyway. What's your CPU useage when playing MKV's, and what player are you using?
Mike |
I'll go do some tests and get back to you. From memory CPU usage is usually between 60-80%
I use 7MC for playback, and have used VLC on occasion, but VLC has a habit of stuttering every few minutes. I used to use the KM player but it doesn't seem to play nice with Windows 7? |
That CPU usage is very high...It sounds like your not getting hardware acceleration from your video card. Try MPC-HC, it installs all the filters you need...It is ugly but it works very well, I launch it from MediaBrowser as an external player. You also might need to install the latest DX9 patch from Microsoft. I run EVR custom as the render, I think its the default with MPC-HC.
Mike
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Just use windows media player. No downloading anything required (except of course Haali and FFDShow).
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | What's your CPU useage when playing MKV's, and what player are you using?
Mike |
Using Windows Media Center playing TDK MKV CPU usage runs between 40-100% with an average of 75%, results are similar for other MKV rips I've done. RAM usage is around 800MB, to 1GB.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
That CPU usage is very high...It sounds like your not getting hardware acceleration from your video card. Try MPC-HC, it installs all the filters you need...It is ugly but it works very well, I launch it from MediaBrowser as an external player. You also might need to install the latest DX9 patch from Microsoft. I run EVR custom as the render, I think its the default with MPC-HC.
Mike |
I'll grab MPC-HC and see if it makes a difference, how high would you expect the CPU usage to be? Keeping in mind this is a 2.4Ghz dual core, clocked to 2.65Ghz.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| greg_mitch wrote: | | Just use windows media player. No downloading anything required (except of course Haali and FFDShow). |
That's what I believe I'm doing now, Media Center is basically Media Player right? And it works fine 95% of the time, but the other 5% of the time I have the CPU usage spike to 100% and everything freezes up. I'll try MPC-HC like Mike suggested. But if that doesn't work it sounds like I need just a little more CPU grunt, right?
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Are you doing custom res's?
You said you use this for music, photos, and BR rips. There are probably a few STB alternatives that will offer trouble free playback.
The people that put out the popcorn hour announced a smaller box without a HDD (USB or network attachment I believe) that will play everything you want for less than $200. Might be better spending your money on more HDD space as long as you have another PC somewhere to do your ripping.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/04/popbox-v1-0-hardware-specs-and-content-partners-revealed/
Just a thought...
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| greg_mitch wrote: | Are you doing custom res's?
You said you use this for music, photos, and BR rips. There are probably a few STB alternatives that will offer trouble free playback.
The people that put out the popcorn hour announced a smaller box without a HDD (USB or network attachment I believe) that will play everything you want for less than $200. Might be better spending your money on more HDD space as long as you have another PC somewhere to do your ripping.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/04/popbox-v1-0-hardware-specs-and-content-partners-revealed/
Just a thought... |
I'm running 1080p 60 to my G70, not really a custom resolution, but I did tweak the timings to get rid of some ringing.
I'd prefer to keep playback on the HTPC as I'm a big fan of the Media Center interface, and even more so of the Media Browser interface for my BD rips.
The Popbox is a neat idea, and the UI also looks nice, but it looks like the output is HDMI so I'd need a HD Fury, or Moome card, and even then I'd have to hope that the timings worked out of the box, I like the idea, but all of a sudden the $200 turns into an easy $300, and could be doubled, or more if the timings weren't right.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather spend the $300 on new PC parts personally
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | Center interface, and even more so of the Media Browser interface for my BD rips.
The Popbox is a neat idea, and the UI also looks nice, but it looks like the output is HDMI so I'd need a HD Fury, or Moome card, and even then I'd have to hope that the timings worked out of the box, I like the idea, but all of a sudden the $200 turns into an easy $300, and could be doubled, or more if the timings weren't right. |
Yep...I like plain old RGBHV too, moome card is 1/2 or more of what an HTPC cost. When I'm in my theater with media center and MediaBrowser I NEVER go to desktop, need a keyboard or mouse thanks to Gyro-Remote.
When the CableCard version of the HDHomerun comes out I'll be dumping Dish Network and running everything with the PC.
Mike
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: |
Keeping in mind this is a 2.4Ghz dual core, clocked to 2.65Ghz. |
That might be a little light, more CPU won't hurt. When I went to the AMD 965 3.4Ghz from a dual core pentium 2.93Ghz my rip times dropped by about 1/3. Now its rare to have a rip take longer then an hour. Typical is 1/2-3/4 of an hour. Disk with seamless branching take a while longer.
Mike
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Zebu Fellenz wrote: |
Keeping in mind this is a 2.4Ghz dual core, clocked to 2.65Ghz. |
That might be a little light, more CPU won't hurt. When I went to the AMD 965 3.4Ghz from a dual core pentium 2.93Ghz my rip times dropped by about 1/3. Now its rare to have a rip take longer then an hour. Typical is 1/2-3/4 of an hour. Disk with seamless branching take a while longer.
Mike |
Well I'll be shopping around for a cheaper Athlon X2 6400+ then.
My Dad, and little brother are in the theater right now watching Public Enemies, they had to come get me about two minutes into the movie when it "froze," I went in, got it going again, and watched the task manager, sure enough it was running the CPU up and hitting 100% for a second or so at a time, so I'm pretty sure this is the root problem right now. Funny though how it only ever acts up when someone other than me is using the theater... 
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Osceola, Indiana
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