CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject:

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

IT's all about the free market....

If people will pay, why would you lower prices?

If projectors aren't selling...you probably have to lower prices.

If someone can make the same thing as another, and sell it cheaper...it only benefits everyone..it's the free market.

If someone finds something too expensive, don't buy it. I would also find it difficult to pay out for the adapters...they cost as much as a projector these days. So...under my free will, I wouldn't buy them. But as long as others do...why would anyone change anything? Free market baby!

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject:

I completely agree Ben on all counts. It just bugs me when someone bitches about the pricing without stepping up to the plate and offering an alternative.

I once had a lawyer bitch about my repair pricing. I asked him what he did for a living, and once he said he was a lawyer, I asked him why he charged $400 for a legal letter, after all, it was just words on a piece of paper which I could type and print out at home for nothing.

He saw my point, laughed, sent the repair in, and has been a good customer ever since. Smile

I have a plan in place now, nothing radical, but my eBay listings will be going up in numbers of sheer crap shortly. Smile

Jim Shonk · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 149 Location: Zanesville Ohio

I just wanted to chime in if ya don’t mind, Curt it’s not just the CRT business that’s falling down, The economy has a lot to do with it,

I have ran a PC repair and upgrade business out of my home for years as well as Live sound reinforcement, We all know the shift in the PC market over the years, custom builds were the way to go, large profits and better machines, now you can buy a bad ass system cheap at Wal-Mart,

When I first started in the business, a meg of ram was a $100.00 bucks, a hard drive was well over $300.00, At first we did not shift gears fast enough and ended up with a bunch of obsolete hardware that was top dollar a few years earlier, Now we make our money on repairs like virus spy ware removal and techie stuff, custom builds forget it , can’t make a buck on those anymore.

So sell now for what you can get out of the lower end stuff before it becomes boat anchors,

I bought a low hour G70 a while back and the seller wanted to give me a 1272 that 330 hours on it and I left it there, didn’t want the hassle, 2 years ago I would have pissed my pants.

There has just been a cheeping down of everything it seems. High end High quality has been tossed out for cheap fast and easy,

Even the sound reinforcement business has changed. We use to get calls to do shows at clubs for big bucks, hard hitting base, dripping wet vocals and screaming lead guitars was a must, Now most the clubs have cheap ass dime store PA’s with 8 channel mixers and the bands and crowds’ are ok with it, Hell they don’t even mic kick drums anymore, so now we just do large festivals out door and stuff, and the high end sound equipment is hard as hell to sell and cheap to buy.

I didn’t mean to ramble on so, I am just saying it’s time to shift gears, I noticed a decline in the ebay listings for CRT related stuff over a year ago or more, So we all had to know it was coming, Sad but true it’s dyeing.

Just my 2 cents

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

I'm not sure it's worth the effort to respond, but...

digitalayon commented:
> One more thing....third party prices for items need to come down.....Alot!!!!! <

I suspect (hope) you meant your criticisms constructively, but the way you write, they won't come off that way.

First off, many (if not all) of the 3rd party items are sold in fairly small quantities, which is guaranteed to increase prices. That's always true, in any arena. Wishing it weren't so for CRTs is just that, wishful thinking. Do you honestly think you can sell something for the same price that you manufacture in the hundreds (or less), vs. a production run of thousands (or more)? Have you ever heard of the concept "economies of scale"?

> for example....200 bucks for three pieces of metal(hd-145 adapters) I don't care what they do....I still see three pieces of metal COSTING ALOT!!!! <

But they're not. You can go to the junkyard, and get "3 pieces of metal" pretty cheap. The adapters are precision-machined pieces of aluminum. If they were being manufactured for the military, they'd be $2,000... each.

> Same with the HDFURY....But that one is on borrowed time anyway. I spoke with developer from nvidia a few days ago at a tech conference. He said they know about HDFury and others like them. The are working on a software update that will add that capability to any newer nvidia card for free. <

Very cool! I'd be interested in hearing how they manage to input a signal from an external device. That's quite a trick for a video card! Tell us more.

> They were boasting what a newer HTPC will be doing for any TV and their format conversions. <

If it's being sourced from an HTPC, no HDFury is needed on the VGA output, on anybody's video card, right now. No "software updates" needed.

> But prices need to come down a ton if you want to sell more projectors. But then again it will take a wack on the head for some. I believe nvidia will rip the converter devices to the bone. <

You have no clue what you're talking about. Sad

> I showed the 1208s to my friend who works a cnc metal mill and then showed him the converters that joust makes....he said he can make the same converters as the joust ones for less than 5 bucks a piece. <

Excellent! Please let us know when they are available for purchase. At that price, I'll buy a set just to compare them to my Joust plates.

[Geez. I didn't realize there was a 4th page of responses. Guess I should have paid more attention.]

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

digitalayon followed up with:
> I'm just saying that some people can get scared with these mods because of the prices added to make their projector work. <

Well there's your problem. Who the hell is telling them they "need" all these mods to "make their projector work"??? That's nonsense.

> All I am simply saying is that ...the buyer will not be so scared to purchase one. <

There's nothing to be scared of... beyond the size, weight, and setup time. Wink

And a small learning curve.

> You guys missed my point. Or maybe I didn't come across the way I meant. <

Evidently not.

> But the options for each projector add on/third party need to be with each listed projector he wants to sell. that way no one would be as scared. <

You just said it right there... they're options. And the list of potential options could get pretty big. That doesn't mean you need ANY of them.

> because right now a person buying like my friend was looking at earlier just got confused and more confused not by the projector but what else he might need. <

What sources does your friend have? That will determine what he "needs". DVD player? Blu-ray player? HD tuner? HTPC? MediaPlayer box? Depending on his source(s), he may not need anything else at all. E.g. for just OTA hi-def viewing, an LST-3410A (an obsolete HD-DVR from LG) will let you watch and record anything from antenna (and clear QAM cable channels). Plug directly from the VGA output in the back to your PJ, using only a breakout cable (HD15-to-BNC). OK, there's one thing he'd need to add. Smile

For Blu-ray, he'd likely need an HDFury. Have him pick up a Fury1 dirt cheap, and an HDMI to DVI cable of the appropriate length. Done.

I'm mystified by what the people you're talking about think they NEED to have to be able to use a CRT PJ. It's nowhere near as complicated (or expensive) as you're making it out to be, at the entry-level. Sure, depending on expectations and knowledge, there's stuff you can add to improve things, but they aren't required to get started (and some manage to get along without them indefinitely). For crying out sideways, who ever said you had to replace the lenses (and buy Joust plates to be able to do so), to be able to use and enjoy a CRT PJ? Or buy an expensive screen. Or whatever your friends are using as excuses. That's just nuts.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject:

After getting a speeding ticket today that was totally my fault and totally pissed me off (I was lost, running late, etc)< I scored bigtime today.

I will post more on Monday, but I have an alternative, or should I say, something to supplement my CRT income.

I'M GOING DIGITAL! Wink

Not what you think, but it should make me some reasonable coin once I get up to speed. I'm excited!

stefuel · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:15 am Post subject:

Curt, I did say that corporate would use you for parts and service to keep existing installations going. What I was trying to get accross was that I doubt you will ever see the 20+ projector orders that VDC knowingly could handle. I'm not saying you couldn't do it but the geek on the other end who's job is on the line if he get's it wrong might think more than twice about giving a twenty projector order to a one man show. As a rule, people in general don't put that much faith in on man opeations. There are just to many horror stories associated with them.
There is nothing wrong with your pricing. It's just human nature to want things as cheap as you can get them. You're selling high end projectors for about a 10th of their original cost. The problem is it's rapidly becoming cheaper and better to use the throw-away technology. CRT projectors are not going away over night but they will continue to dwindle away as digital gets better and cheaper. Remember when sound was your primary money maker and CRT projectors was only a second job and then CRT took over? Well It's my opinion that CRT in the HT market has passed the saturation point. Those who want it have it and in multiples. Those who think they want it are still on the fence or have fallen to the digital side. That's why I said that CRT will soon be the second job, just as Mike said, you'll be providing other services with your talent.
It's all a learning experiance just like when you were learning to fish. At first you couldn't bait a hook to save your a$$. Before long you progressed to a jouneyman baiter and now look at you, a full fledged masterbaiter Mr. Green

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:44 am Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:43 am Post subject:

BTW digitalayon PMed me, I posted a kneejerk reaction above, he meant it more as constructive criticism, so I apologize for being a typical woman with my reaction. Smile

Now, what frustrates me this year and last is the lack of ebb and flow that my business had. It was more massive flooding or complete drought. Go figure.

From Jan to July 31 I had record sales, to all types of customers outlined in my first post. I couldn't keep sets in stock, and it pretty much took me back to about 3 years ago with the volume of sales. THe economy sucked in Jan as much as it does now, and hte last 4-5 months have been pretty dead, but record parts demand and record repairs (that part I expected).

So... you can't really blame the excessive sales and then lack thereof on the economy, a new digital that came out that wowed the fence sitters, etc. A bunch here and on avs have proclaimed the death of CRT for about 5 years now, so explain a 6 month record breaking period, then almost.. nothing?

Good post, Chip.

I know there are piles of avenues open to me, Mike emailed me some tidbits, and I went to a classic audio shoppe that I'd heard of for a number of years locally, see my other post on that on the off topic area...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=223500#223500

donaldk · Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 308

donaldk · Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 308

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Zebu Fellenz · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2567

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

SpankyHam wrote:
> ...one can use a CRT with a HTPC thereby negating the need for expensive add-ons or maybe just a Kimcoder for other sources. The problem is that a potential new customer or returning customer may come in here and be inundated with replies of absolutely needing extras in order to have a functioning set-up. ...A lot of people were(are) looking for value in CRT and probably get a little disenchanted when they see that add-ons can cost more than the pj. <

Absolutely. There are many potential options, and it can be intimidating to a newcomer. But it doesn't have to be. Even with DVD sources, you don't even have to consider a scaler any more. Just pick up a Blu-ray player (if you don't already have one) for $150 +/-, add an HDFury, and you're good to go for everything off disc (it'll upscale all your DVDs to the CRT just fine). If you've got a cable co. box or DVR with an HDMI output, just stick a $30 HDMI switch in front of the HDFury.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:23 am Post subject:

lexx21 · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 119

Something that you could do is to sell your 7" and 8" sets at a much lower cost with say a 30 day warranty, then sell a service plan much like the big box stores do. That way you can make up some of the cost difference when you discount your sets. If the customer decides not to purchase a service plan, they pay full price on replacement components. If they do purchase a service plan, give them a discount/replacement on the part depending on what it is.

This could lead you into making residual income via service plans. Just something to think about.

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado