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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:47 am Post subject: Is there a way to increase a HZ scanrate on a Runco 933? |
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Hey guys,
My old man giving me back the projector I just gave him because he was told by a technician who was going to set it up that the horizontal scanrate is way too low for him to enjoy movies on. I am pissed!!!! However maybe there is a way to "up-it" I am told that the Runco 980 is the same unit as the 933 but has a higher scanrate. I guess they did that to make the 980 cost more. Can I increase this on the 933? Or is it not worth doing? Is it a embeded software thing that separates it?
thx in advance guys.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:07 am Post subject: |
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The "technician" is either completely full of crap or doesn't know what he's talking about. There is no issue with the horizontal scan rate on that machine that would prevent your old man from "enjoying movies" on it.
The Runco 933 is an NEC 6PG Xtra, which is fully well capable of running 720p or 1080i. About the only way the projector would be inadequate was if your Dad was dead-set on running 1080p and 1080p only.
The only Runco 980 is the IDP-980, which from what I can tell is also a 6PG Xtra - so, in essence identical to the 933. The 980 may even be an older version of the same projector... The IDP nomenclature is older than the DTV nomenclature.
SC
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: |
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What Ecrabb said. The tech is an idiot. Give him a solid Canadian bitchslap for me. 
Run 1080i or 720p and call it a day. THe 980 is a PG or a PG+, a lower end and older projector from the 933. Those tubes in that set can't really resolve 1080p anyways.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: |
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The 933 was the model with the line doubler in it wasn't it?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Nope, NECs never had doublers in them.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Nope, NECs never had doublers in them. |
Are you sure? I remember a local A/V store that had one with a Runco added line doubler.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Unless Runco fiddled with it, an Xtra has a 69khz scanrate limit, which technically is enough to sync to 1080p 60hz.
And yes, some Runco badged NECs came bundled with a doubler as a matched pair, but it wasn't internal. There is an extra switcher board internally.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Only the Runco 852 (Zenith pro 900 had a Runco added line doubler board internally. It took the Zenith 9K list price to about $15K.
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
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the "NECs" w/line doubler or scaler sold by Runco were bundles with one of their doublers/scalers, not integrated units.
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cornelius
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm running a Runco 933 at 1080i@72hz, and the picture is GREAT! That tech doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and probably just had no idea how to set it up, so he told him it was no good. The 933 came with an external doubler, but you don't need to use it. It's a rebadged NEC 6PG Xtra, mine was built in 1999, so they are fairly new.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| cornelius wrote: | | I'm running a Runco 933 at 1080i@72hz, and the picture is GREAT! That tech doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and probably just had no idea how to set it up, so he told him it was no good. The 933 came with an external doubler, but you don't need to use it. It's a rebadged NEC 6PG Xtra, mine was built in 1999, so they are fairly new. |
What's the model number of your external doubler?
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I bet-ya dollars for donuts this "tech" went to the Best Buy 2 hour Magnolia college for home theatre installations.  [/s]
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | I bet-ya dollars for donuts this "tech" went to the Best Buy 2 hour Magnolia college for home theatre installations. [/s] |
Thats funny. Yea, and these are the same guys the manufacturers are sending out to do flat panel repair now. They go to your house, look at the tv(I'm mean stand there and look at it), call the special phone number and give the symptoms, factory says ok were going to send boards to the customer. Customer gets boards, calls Magnolia college dropout, they come and install boards, tv still doesn't work, call special phone number and factory says give them a new tv.
This is providing it still under warranty and the warranty continues from that date, it doesn't start over.
Meanwhile customer has no tv for about 2 or 3 months.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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I talked with the tech the other day he said scan lines will be noticeable and you wont be able to get rid of them. The picture will be flashy.....is he right?
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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No...You might see scan lines at 3-4 feet from the screen at 1080i, if the projector is really setup right. Flashy....I have no idea what he means...You need to dump that tech...he sounds like he doesn't know a thing about CRT's.
Mike
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Flashy....I have no idea what he means...You need to dump that tech...he sounds like he doesn't know a thing about CRT's. |
I don't think HE even knows what he means. "Flashy"? Seriously? Isn't "flashy" when you wear clothes or drive a car just to impress people?
I assume with the "interlaced" remark, he's referring to field flicker, but that's not a problem with 1080i with anything but really good 8" EM focus projectors, and then only if you sit fairly close.
Not only does it sound like he knows nothing about CRT's, but I'd guess he doesn't know that much about video in general.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is there a way to increase a HZ scanrate on a Runco 933? |
Nobody's mentioned it (I don't think) so I may as well: You don't set the horizontal scanrate of a projector. You feed the projector a signal and it simply locks onto the scanrate of the signal it's fed. Analog displays have a MAXIMUM horiz scanrate that you can't go over or simply won't lock. Some projectors will try and lock on to anything you feed it and if it's too high you'll pop an output transistor or something in the display (poor design).
Maybe you meant to ask "how do I increase the maximum horizontal scanrate on a Runco 933?".
As others have said, you don't need to or would you want to. The Runco 933 is a rebadged NEC 6PG Xtra with a maxmum scanrate of 50Khz. (see: http://www.curtpalme.com/Runco_Model_CrossRef.shtm)
That's enough for 1080i/60 which, with those 7" tubes and EM focussing will look fantastic. 1080i/60 only uses 34Khz. Scanlines won't be objectionable. A 1080i image (1920x1080 resolution) will look phenominal. Assuming the projector is well set up and greyscale calibrated.
Kal
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Well, if Runco did hobble the 933, you could swap the defection board with an Xtra board (maybe system too) and get the 69khz scanrate back.
But you don't need to. 1080i 72hz is a 42khz scanrate, and that's what I used to run on my Xtra.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Oh, and this website lists the PG 6200 Xtra max scanrate as either 64 or 65khz.
It is actually 69khz (and 100khz for the 9200).
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | What Ecrabb said. The tech is an idiot. Give him a solid Canadian bitchslap for me. |
What exactly is this? ... for future reference.
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