| Author |
Message |
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
A couple of things come to mind. The lack of heat directly on the LCD panel has to be better for it than those smoking hot lamps. The full back lit LEDs have what, 960 LED's. I'll bet you could loose quite a few if they were scattered around the whole screen before you would know something was wrong. A straight LCD has what, two lamps. You loose one and it's quite obvious. If those plasmas and lcds are that hot on the outside, I can only guess how hot they are on the inside.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| stefuel wrote: | | A couple of things come to mind. The lack of heat directly on the LCD panel has to be better for it than those smoking hot lamps. The full back lit LEDs have what, 960 LED's. I'll bet you could loose quite a few if they were scattered around the whole screen before you would know something was wrong. A straight LCD has what, two lamps. You loose one and it's quite obvious. If those plasmas and lcds are that hot on the outside, I can only guess how hot they are on the inside. |
Ok, I understand better what you mean. Well leaving plasma out of the equation for now, a 32 florescent style lcd has around 12 tubes running the width of the display and are smaller in diameter then a pencil. Heat is very minimal from these tubes. Most of the heat comes from the power supply and other small sections of various boards. So I'm not so sure heat on the panel from the backlighting would be an issue. Just for the heck of it I felt the face of my 32" lcd I have hanging in the motorhome hear and its only slightly above room temp. But the heat coming from the rear vent is substantially more. I can only assume the LED's will probably produce the same heat.
I've also come across some reviews that have found that some LED's flatpanels use more power then their florescent counter parts of the same size. But the reviews didn't discuss exact makes or models but I'm sure power consumption can vary both ways with both types of displays. But I dont think the phrase that led's use less energy then florescent displays can be used accurately.
Oh, and what was your abbreviation MTF for?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
MTF [median time to failure] Expected failure rates
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| stefuel wrote: | | MTF [median time to failure] Expected failure rates |
Article copy n paste:
LONGEVITY
Most LCD manufacturers are claiming approximately 100,000 hours lifetime for their televisions. LED backlit televisions are brand new and don't have much of a track record but LED lights are typically long lived.
ADVANTAGE: LED televisions do not have much history. They should have an advantage since the fluorescent style backlighting used in traditional LCDs ever so slightly change color hue over time. Light emitting diode technology should not have as much degradation over time. Quality of manufacture for either technology will also matter.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. I have more questions, so I'm going back to see boobs. 
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stefuel wrote: | | I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. I have more questions, so I'm going back to see boobs. |
What........ I trying to help you out here  I'm just giving you some facts so you can make a good decision 
Hmmmmm.........oh, I see.....................you just need an excuse to go see miss boooooooooooooobs.....................
Lets see what you end up with now................................. Remember this word.............................................................................COMMISSION...................... Oh, hell...........................your not even listening anymore................................you just have 2 things on your mind.................................................................. try to think pancakes..........
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lets see what you end up with now................................. Remember this word.............................................................................COMMISSION...................... Oh, hell...........................your not even listening anymore................................you just have 2 things on your mind.................................................................. try to think pancakes..........
When I go back, I'll just keep telling myself "Rosanne Barr naked, Rosanne Barr naked, Rosanne Barr naked and then perhaps the bigger head will take over and the little voice will shut up.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Without consideration for anything else (cost, picture quality) there is a huge difference in power consumption just between brands of like size LED displays. In the mid 40's inch range, the Sony XBR8's are over 450 watts where the Sharps are just over 150 watts. Granted the Sony's with their individual RGB LED's is technically more advanced then the Sharp but 4X the power consumption is a bit much. The Sony's are on par (energy speaking) as the plasma's.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't bother with LCD flat panels at all. LED is just more dollar hype than technology reward. Also, I can sit here and compare about the same generation LCD to plasma and I'll take the plasma every time.
I was surely eying that 58" Samsung plasma for $1599 at Costco the other day. Sure, it was 1080P, but that only matters if I sat sufficiently close enough.
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well Wan, for the time being we're not talking about HT. I have to replace the TV in the living room. There really isn't anything else available but DLP RPTV's or flat panels. I do not want a RPTV. What would you suggest. As far the my HT goes, the AmPro stays at least until the current set of tubes holds up. That's when I switch to crisis mode. The decision then will be a re-tube at a cost of about 4K or 4K towards a giant flat panel. For some of you, even the biggest of consumer flat panels would be a step way down in screen size but for me with a 72" diag screen, is not that big a deal.
With flat panels boasting 100,000 hour life spans, that's ten sets of tubes. Not that I expect to get 100,000 hours ot of it 
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wasn't talking HT. I'd never use a flat panel for HT. I'd probably never use any technology based on hiding light to reproduce black for HT. I'm saying that in my family room I have a plasma, which replaced the LCD that is now in the seldom used formal living room with dedicated Xbox use.
I just preferred the colors, wider viewing angle, etc. from the plasma. Personal preference, sure, but what else should be going into one's personal decisions? Sorry if what I offered was useless. Here, let me try once more:
Buy the LED LCD and make sure its the most expensive name brand out there.
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Mac, I haven't personally owned either a plasma or an LCD. But if plasmas actually use LESS power in typical viewing scenes, why do I keep hearing they run fry-an-egg hot? Is Panasonic fudging numbers to make their plasma look better? Seems unlikely, since they also sell LCDs -- but that slide presentation definitely bashes LCD vs. plasma.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Buy the LED LCD and make sure its the most expensive name brand out there."
You heard it first here folks. I got permission to SPEND THE MONEY
Not that I ever needed permission 
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stefuel wrote: |
With flat panels boasting 100,000 hour life spans, that's ten sets of tubes. Not that I expect to get 100,000 hours ot of it |
Now you should know better then that Chip. That rating is lamp life rating, just the lamps. Also, florescents change in output hue over time (way less then rated life) which affects color. Of course you'll get tired of replacing 300 to 400 dollar boards long before that ever happens.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garyfritz wrote: | | Mac, I haven't personally owned either a plasma or an LCD. But if plasmas actually use LESS power in typical viewing scenes, why do I keep hearing they run fry-an-egg hot? Is Panasonic fudging numbers to make their plasma look better? Seems unlikely, since they also sell LCDs -- but that slide presentation definitely bashes LCD vs. plasma. |
Here's the misconception. LCD's, weather florescent or LED back lighting run full blast all the time. The lamps are always on. So thats what their rating in based on.
Plasmas are like regular CRT. Energy is only being used to emit light and at varying levels. But their rating is for what they would use at maximum level (full white). So if you sit there watching a full white screen all day then yes you'll use the close to rated level.
As far as heat, yes they do run hotter then LCD. But not egg frying hot. I can touch my plasma screen at any time without fear of getting burnt. Also note that plasma screens are not susceptible to heat damage where as LCD's are.
So if you want to talk eco friendly look at it this way.
1: Plasmas generally use less power.
2: Plasmas contain no harmful elements, florescent LCD's have mercury. LEDs probably not.
3: Plasmas help heat your house during colder weather therefore saving some fuel costs.
4: Plus a better overall image in almost every other area of display. Just some trouble with a nice pure white.
Failures are pretty much the same.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I understand all the flourescent-on-all-the-time &etc arguments. But if plasmas "do run hotter" than LCDs, how could they be using less power!?
I definitely understand the heat-your-house "feature." I've been promoting that for CRT projectors for years. 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah...Ah...Ah...the full back lit LED's with local dimming are not on full blast all the time and is one of the major points of this thread.
Damn-it, I'll just hang another AmPro in the living room and whack another 700 watts per hour to my un-godly electric bill
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stefuel wrote: | | Ah...Ah...Ah...the full back lit LED's with local dimming are not on full blast all the time and is one of the major points of this thread. |
True, but we dont know as of yet is just how much power it takes to light all those LED's. Maybe if only half are lit equals florescents. I dont know?
That Sharp you stated above at 150 watts. Was that edge lighting?
Sony has been having problems with those triluminous units but I'm not sure just what, but I do know they are now involved with Samsung and using their panels.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garyfritz wrote: | I understand all the flourescent-on-all-the-time &etc arguments. But if plasmas "do run hotter" than LCDs, how could they be using less power!?
I definitely understand the heat-your-house "feature." I've been promoting that for CRT projectors for years. |
Developing more heat doesn't mean more power consumption. A high power drawing device can run fairly cool and a low power device can generate lots of heat.
Plus the difference in heat between LCD and Plasma may not be a lot as far as degrees. Someday when my plasmas are back in use I'll do a temp test.
I actually did some temp testing a while back with a CRT TV, an LCD tv and a plasma tv. It was from the venting tho, not the face. The coolest was the CRT, and by more then a few degrees. I just dont remember the exact figures.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
