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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | Ah...Ah...Ah...the full back lit LED's with local dimming are not on full blast all the time and is one of the major points of this thread.
Damn-it, I'll just hang another AmPro in the living room and whack another 700 watts per hour to my un-godly electric bill  |
I looked back at my first post in this thread and I questioned the power consumption difference then. The local dimming I brought up to state it would produce a better picture.
Do I have everybody confused yet?
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I had to reread the start of this thread. I guess Chip wasn't really looking for buying advice as much as making a statement.
Mac,
That is interesting info about the power usage. My father bought a LCD last year and doesn't really like it. He literally pulls his chair three feet from directly in front of it. I don't feel like explaining contrast ratios and viewing angles again. He called me a couple of weeks ago asking how to plug something into the 36" crt. I asked him why and he said he preferred watching a lot of stuff on it. Anyway, with the price of plasmas I don't understand why anyone would spend the extra money on these LEDs.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Vizio_VF551XVT.html
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Developing more heat doesn't mean more power consumption. A high power drawing device can run fairly cool and a low power device can generate lots of heat. |
!? How does THAT work?
If the power goes in, it has to convert into some other form of energy. It might be kinetic energy (e.g. a motor), or light energy (a display), or heat. Two similar-sized displays generating the same amount of light from a similar image are consuming the same amount of power for kinetic energy (near zero, unless there's a fan) and for light energy. If they also produce the same amount of heat, they should draw about the same amount of energy. I don't see how a device could draw more power and run cool & vice versa.
BTW by "run cool" I don't mean it's well-cooled with a big fan. I'm talking about the amount of heat it generates. Maybe you're talking about a high-power device that blows all its heat out a vent, vs. a low-power device that doesn't dump its heat?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Came across this while searching for something else.
Quote:
Sony CCFL, HCFL and LED back light TV
A). Sony KDL-46W4500 CCFL Backlight with average power consumption 230W .
B). Sony KDL-46WE5 HCFL (4mm dia.) backlight which consumes a 40% than CCFL .
C). Sony KDL-46X4500 using more than 1,000 RGB LED as back light, Available 46 and 52” size available.
Electric Bill
Tests have been doen for these three types of TV the result is :
A). CCFL has average power consumption 230W
B). HCFL has an average power consumption of 150W
C). LED has an average of 200W
So LED is not the least power consumption backlight system yet. But the performance in contrast is stunning especially the Darkness interpretation is outstanding as they have local dimming function by running off individual LED spot that is HCFL is no way to achieve.
end quote
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | Came across this while searching for something else.
Quote:
Sony CCFL, HCFL and LED back light TV
A). Sony KDL-46W4500 CCFL Backlight with average power consumption 230W .
B). Sony KDL-46WE5 HCFL (4mm dia.) backlight which consumes a 40% than CCFL .
C). Sony KDL-46X4500 using more than 1,000 RGB LED as back light, Available 46 and 52” size available.
Electric Bill
Tests have been doen for these three types of TV the result is :
A). CCFL has average power consumption 230W
B). HCFL has an average power consumption of 150W
C). LED has an average of 200W
So LED is not the least power consumption backlight system yet. But the performance in contrast is stunning especially the Darkness interpretation is outstanding as they have local dimming function by running off individual LED spot that is HCFL is no way to achieve.
end quote |
Every post seems to make it more confusing when deciding what to buy. The HCFL from a energy standpoint seems to be the clear winner. So I did a comparison search and that revealed some new ammunition for a argument.
Estimated life span for CCFL vs HCFL (lamps only) electronics not considered.
HCFL has a expected life span of 7,000 hrs
CCFL has a expected life span of 10,000 hrs
LED has no track record as of yet but the LED array is estimated to have a 100,000 hr life span.
So this raises a question in my mind, if you buy a CCFL LCD panel and are handy like most of us here, what would be the lamp cost for replacement? I know the kids will blow past the 10K mark in about 2 years. They do their homework then play video gamed till they drop. Probably not the best thing for them but at least I know where they are.
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Now that someone has gone and pissed me off on my day off (you know who you are  ) I might as well prep for painting the room that's getting the flat panel. Part of that prep is installing in-wall speakers in the proposed location for the panel. I have not seen a flat panel with sound that is worth crap. I have no experiance with in-wall speakers. The wife does not want floor standing or wall hung. So it will be L,R and C for the fronts and ceiling mounted for the surrounds. This is just for the kids so the ultimate listening experiance is not required. Is there anything to look for or more to the point stay away from when looking for in-walls. We're not talking CRT here so do they still have to me magnetically shielded???
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Are you going to use bias lighting? In a family room setting this is often nice as its easy on the eyes (less fatigue). I think it'll also enhance the perceived blacks when using the panel at night.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | Now that someone has gone and pissed me off on my day off (you know who you are ) I might as well prep for painting the room that's getting the flat panel. Part of that prep is installing in-wall speakers in the proposed location for the panel. I have not seen a flat panel with sound that is worth crap. I have no experiance with in-wall speakers. The wife does not want floor standing or wall hung. So it will be L,R and C for the fronts and ceiling mounted for the surrounds. This is just for the kids so the ultimate listening experiance is not required. Is there anything to look for or more to the point stay away from when looking for in-walls. We're not talking CRT here so do they still have to me magnetically shielded??? |
I have no experience with this speaker, but the design looks identical to my Dali Helicons.. So have a look.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/SPECO-SP625BB-/50-6548
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | Now that someone has gone and pissed me off on my day off (you know who you are ) I might as well prep for painting the room that's getting the flat panel. Part of that prep is installing in-wall speakers in the proposed location for the panel. I have not seen a flat panel with sound that is worth crap. I have no experiance with in-wall speakers. The wife does not want floor standing or wall hung. So it will be L,R and C for the fronts and ceiling mounted for the surrounds. This is just for the kids so the ultimate listening experiance is not required. Is there anything to look for or more to the point stay away from when looking for in-walls. We're not talking CRT here so do they still have to me magnetically shielded??? |
I have no experience with this speaker, but the design looks identical to my Dali Helicons.. So have a look.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/SPECO-SP625BB-/50-6548 |
I can't quite figure it out...is that each, or pair?
Parts Express also has some well reviewed, very reasonably priced in-walls under their Dayton name:
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=INWALLCEILINGSPEAKERS&srchExt=FILTER&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=&srchMfg=301&srchPromo=&srchAttr=
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | dturco wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | Now that someone has gone and pissed me off on my day off (you know who you are ) I might as well prep for painting the room that's getting the flat panel. Part of that prep is installing in-wall speakers in the proposed location for the panel. I have not seen a flat panel with sound that is worth crap. I have no experiance with in-wall speakers. The wife does not want floor standing or wall hung. So it will be L,R and C for the fronts and ceiling mounted for the surrounds. This is just for the kids so the ultimate listening experiance is not required. Is there anything to look for or more to the point stay away from when looking for in-walls. We're not talking CRT here so do they still have to me magnetically shielded??? |
I have no experience with this speaker, but the design looks identical to my Dali Helicons.. So have a look.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/SPECO-SP625BB-/50-6548 |
I can't quite figure it out...is that each, or pair?
Parts Express also has some well reviewed, very reasonably priced in-walls under their Dayton name:
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=INWALLCEILINGSPEAKERS&srchExt=FILTER&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=&srchMfg=301&srchPromo=&srchAttr= |
I believe it is each. I wouldn't expect to do any critical listen with them. I'd buy them for a family room for the kids though.
That dayton stuff looks good too.
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http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:35 am Post subject: |
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I would check out the PE stuff. You can go over to their forum and ask how good they are.
Mac,
Do you think if my father purchased a plasma that he should get at least five good years out of it?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
Mac,
Do you think if my father purchased a plasma that he should get at least five good years out of it? |
Ouch, thats a loaded question. The problem is the parts they are using in these things are huge crap. My gut feeling is probably not but then again I'm sure their are lots out there built in 04 that are still running. Repairs are the bigger problem. There are some component level repairs available but most repairs involved multiple board replacement. Some manufacturers have kits that contain 3 or 4 complete boards that will fail all at once. Kits run 250.00 to 450.00 plus labor putting total around 700.00 to 800.00. You can buy a new tv for less now a days. I dont know what service plans are running and I never use to recommend them but things have changed. And if you want long term security this may have to be an option.
You use to be able to repair a tv for 75 to 150 bucks, parts included. Today thats the bench charge, no parts and boards are expensive.
But really, what else is there. LCD or plasma. Plasmas seem to be failing less but that could be because there are so many more LCDs out there.
I probably wasn't much help here but thats the best I got. Only other suggestions would be try to keep it cool. Like dont hang it over your fireplace. I would even be a little concerned about hanging it over baseboard heat.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. He would have it on a stand away from wall and the vent isn't close to it. I am going to try to get him to pull the trigger after Xmas. I am really sick of hearing about the problems with the $1k LCD he bought last year. That is what you get for buying something with 20 to 1 on/off cr.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Thanks. He would have it on a stand away from wall and the vent isn't close to it. I am going to try to get him to pull the trigger after Xmas. I am really sick of hearing about the problems with the $1k LCD he bought last year. That is what you get for buying something with 20 to 1 on/off cr. |
I must be missing something here. You are saying that a year old $1K LCD is producing 20:1 CR? What was the unit, exactly?
Also, if you are going to put money into a flat panel and be looking at the CR then you'll be fighting an up hill battle. Typically the CR is grossly exaggerated, and appears to be more exaggerated the higher the price goes. Secondly, most folks buying flat panels (and not just of the LCD variety) use them in environments where the [real] CR performance will never be realized--paying for something never garnered.
Now, this isn't to advocate LCDs's of any price point, but just to point out what the appropriate use for them might be, and setting one's expectations (and wallet) accordingly. The most CR you are going to get is dividing the maximum light (non-blooming) output of the unit by the room's ambient lighting during normal expected viewing conditions of the room.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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So most of these flat panels have OTA tuners. I see that they do have audio outputs but I can't tell if they are line level or not. The problem is that I want all the source equipment in the rack with the theater equipment and just run one long HDMI cable from a 2x4 matrix switcher. The amp that I was planning to use and will be in the same room as the tv, does not have HDMI inputs and I don't recall and digital outputs. Any suggestions for that other than buying a new reciever with HDMI?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | So most of these flat panels have OTA tuners. I see that they do have audio outputs but I can't tell if they are line level or not. The problem is that I want all the source equipment in the rack with the theater equipment and just run one long HDMI cable from a 2x4 matrix switcher. The amp that I was planning to use and will be in the same room as the tv, does not have HDMI inputs and I don't recall and digital outputs. Any suggestions for that other than buying a new reciever with HDMI? |
Your probably going to have to look into the specifics as your shopping because different ones have different types of outputs. The ones that I have come across so far that have a digital audio output (optical mostly) was for the OTA HD only. I'm pretty sure the HDMI audio is not passed to it, BUT, check to make sure. This may have changed. Some have a stereo preamp output, nothing special there and some have rear speaker terminals which are power by a very crappy internal amp circuit (I dont even want to call it an amp because its pretty much just a chip). HAHA, a chip for a chip.... Alright, I know, I just drove 400 miles, give me a break. I'm tired and there is some kind of white crap on the ground... 
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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OK, plans have changed somewhat. I'm still going to put a flat screen in the living room for the kids. With the demise of the green tube in the 4600HD and the installation of a Thomas (used tube) in it's place, I've decided to fully re-tube the beastie one more time. I modded one of my neck boards to work with the Thomas tube, installed it and it works fine.
The used tube is about a 5,000 hour tube and it's focus is sharp as a tack. They seem to be a stronger tube than the original LCP's as both contrast and brightness need to be turned down. Three brand new Thomas tubes are ordered so it's time to strip out three LC's and prep them for installation. 4th set of tubes in a AmPro The originals that lasted well past the 10K mark and two used sets with unknown hours to start with but were perfect. One more time and then it's outta here. 
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Wan,
I was joking, but you are right that most (all) LCDs have poor on/off.
My brother and brother in law both bought the LED panels. They don't look that bad, but I don't see an advantage compared to a plasma. I would rather save my money and see what transpires over the next couple of years.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I just got back from Sams and I must confess that the Samsung 42" Led they had on display looked real nice for $1200. It was playing Up from I guess a Blu ray player. In contrast, they had a Vizio showing a SD feed and it looked like crap. I am still not sure if the Led is worth the extra money over a plasma, but I think it may actually look better with HD material.
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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I just purchased the Vizio SV422XVT and it is pretty good so far.
Maybe I'm out-of-touch, but this thing is cool. Connected to my wifi no problem. Haven't tried to stream HD yet, but there are about 4 different channels to stream from.
But, so far so good.
(Speakers are not worth a crap, but I didn't expect too much anyways.)
wallace
EDIT: This is only the third TV I have ever purchased and only the fifth I ever owned; that includes black 'n white.)
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