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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | Yeah, I have an RTC 2200 in the chain and it is adjusted to peak correction which did help a lot and allowed me to turn the contrast down from 50 to 40. the only thing I have not added to my system at this point is an Hdfury2 and calibration. I'm sure those things would make a big difference as well, but my hunch is you can't beat the raw power of two projectors. To be honest, the technical challenge of a stack appeals to me almost as much as the promise of better picture quality, however if I have reason to believe I would be disappointed or unimpressed with the results, I don't want to waste my effort.
It certainly would be fun to show off to company though, they might think i'm nuts but, what the hell! |
How do you run with a contrast of 40?? Can you see any detail at that level??
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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As long as the content is digital and of good quality without excessive compression or what have you, it does well. Keep in mind this is REAR projection with one of the best fresnel/lenticular screens on the market. it has a 3.5 gain on axis , 180 degree horizontal viewing cone, 8 degree off axis vertical cone at half gain or better and somehow it seems to eliminate ghosting from non LC machines! OK I'll stop bragging about it now.  It allows me to do some great things with my projectors and that is why i'm considering a stack. Imagine two top rated,1200 lumens machines pointing right at your eyes through a 3.5 gain screen that is basically a big lens. Oh, the power! 
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | | Imagine two top rated,1200 lumens machines pointing right at your eyes through a 3.5 gain screen that is basically a big lens. Oh, the power! |
I think I just messed myself 
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Praises to Heaven! Someone out there shares my sickness! 
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Kiev,
I don't think a stack is the right way to go for your setup, for a screen as small as the one you have, with the gain you have I can't imagine that you need "more power."
Do you have a colormeter? Have you done a complete calibration?
What you really need is the über rare 10' wide solid RP screen, then you can stack  
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Zebu Fellenz wrote: | Kiev,
I don't think a stack is the right way to go for your setup, for a screen as small as the one you have, with the gain you have I can't imagine that you need "more power."
Do you have a colormeter? Have you done a complete calibration?
What you really need is the über rare 10' wide solid RP screen, then you can stack |
http://www.usnippura.com/
http://www.usnippura.com/clarex_bos-c_rear_projection.htm
Nashou |
Bah,
The widest screen they make is only 8', and it's 4:3 
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: |
Bah,
The widest screen they make is only 8', and it's 4:3
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!!!
I love the sliding pocket door idea too.
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | Kiev,
I don't think a stack is the right way to go for your setup, for a screen as small as the one you have, with the gain you have I can't imagine that you need "more power."
Do you have a colormeter? Have you done a complete calibration?
What you really need is the über rare 10' wide solid RP screen, then you can stack |
I'm interested in your perspective on this Zebu. I was half kidding about the power thing. My understanding is that a properly setup stack gives you a phenomenal contrast ratio (more than double) and easily resolves that low level detail, so you end up with a very realistic, three dimensional picture. Also, I understand that the two units share the load, so you run at a lower contrast and brightness setting allowing your tubes to wear at a much slower rate. I'm also thinking a stack might perform well if it was adapted to some kind of 3D format down the road.
I have all these great toys I never dreamed I would own, so I'm just playing with my equipment right now and getting a feel for it. Everything is set up to be adjustable and easy to experiment with. It will be some time still before it will be ready for calibration. I'm sure I could get a well calibrated image on one projector and keep the contrast below 50, But what about two? Maybe I could get it down to 25 or 30... i am intrigued with that possibility. I dunno maybe I should just get a colorimeter and test out both configurations before I settle on one.
Hmm... you know, i could just go ahead with the stack and if I wasn't impressed with it I would at least have my backup projector ready to go if there was a failure... 
We are talking about G70's after all!
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Zebu Fellenz wrote: | Kiev,
I don't think a stack is the right way to go for your setup, for a screen as small as the one you have, with the gain you have I can't imagine that you need "more power."
Do you have a colormeter? Have you done a complete calibration?
What you really need is the über rare 10' wide solid RP screen, then you can stack |
http://www.usnippura.com/
http://www.usnippura.com/clarex_bos-c_rear_projection.htm
.png)
Nashou |
Nashou, I'm proud of my Diamond Screen but It looks like one of those Blue Ocean Screens could kick my screen's ass!
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Stewarts new rp screen is nice. the dnp screen were considered the best awhile back. It seems like the big ones were over $5k.
I am not sure what screen you are using, but if you have 3 gain then you should be around 20 ft/lmbs or more. There is a misconception about doubling contrast. Two pjs double your light output. It may increase your low level light output, but that would be something that I would like to see measured. For most though, boosting gamma has been an easy fix.
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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maybe the problem is i just don't have a reference of comparison. better equipment and the gamma boost definitely helped a lot but i'm always peering into those dark objects on screen trying to decide if i am seeing everything i'm supposed to be seeing. I will say however, that at 40 contrast with a G70, i'm getting the "full off" blacks for sure. Fade outs are awesome!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | | I will say however, that at 40 contrast with a G70, i'm getting the "full off" blacks for sure. Fade outs are awesome! |
Contrast is peak white, Brightness controls your black level
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Kiev Savoie wrote: | | I will say however, that at 40 contrast with a G70, i'm getting the "full off" blacks for sure. Fade outs are awesome! |
Contrast is peak white, Brightness controls your black level |
With my old 1272, I remember turning up the contrast to get more detail resulted in my blacks turning grayish. Whenever I wanted to tweak my blanking all I had to do was crank it up for a second to see where the edge of the blanking was and look for the tell-tale grey line and adjust accordingly. I can't really do that with the G70, though I haven't dared to push it too much. 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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The best way to set proper Black levels is to set contrast and Brightness to default settings, on a marquee its 50 for both. the you look at the raster and raise the G2 level till you just barely see the raster light up, back of a click and its set. then to get the total greyscale us a probe and Calman or HCFR and follow kals guide. adjust red and blue and try to leave green G2 levels alone. I can get full fade to blacks in a wide range of contrast leaving brightness set at 50, i can even push Brightness to 57 and get FFTB but leave contrast at 50, it depends on what your looking for.
Athanasios
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | Kiev Savoie wrote: | | I will say however, that at 40 contrast with a G70, i'm getting the "full off" blacks for sure. Fade outs are awesome! |
Contrast is peak white, Brightness controls your black level |
With my old 1272, I remember turning up the contrast to get more detail resulted in my blacks turning grayish. Whenever I wanted to tweak my blanking all I had to do was crank it up for a second to see where the edge of the blanking was and look for the tell-tale grey line and adjust accordingly. I can't really do that with the G70, though I haven't dared to push it too much. |
CONTRAST = WHITE PEAK LEVEL
BRIGHTNESS = BLACK LEVEL.
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, no doubt you guys are right. I'm not going to get in a bible quoting contest with a bunch of preachers. I'll do my homework on the distinction. From here on i'll just use the word Settings. As in, "If your settings are high you will put excessive wear on your tubes"
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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""If your settings are high you will put excessive wear on your tubes""
ARRGH!!
If your CONTRAST is too high you will put excessive wear on your tubes.
Brightness does not cause wear.
BRIGHTNESS IS BLACK LEVEL.
Contrast does not bring out detail in dark scenes. Contrast does not allow you to get "full blacks". FRIGGIN BRIGHTNESS DOES.
You really need to understand this.
Don't call me a preacher. And don't mention the stupid bible.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | The best way to set proper Black levels is to set contrast and Brightness to default settings, on a marquee its 50 for both. the you look at the raster and raise the G2 level till you just barely see the raster light up, back of a click and its set. then to get the total greyscale us a probe and Calman or HCFR and follow kals guide. adjust red and blue and try to leave green G2 levels alone. I can get full fade to blacks in a wide range of contrast leaving brightness set at 50, i can even push Brightness to 57 and get FFTB but leave contrast at 50, it depends on what your looking for.
Athanasios |
So you put the contrast and bright at 50. I got that part. Then you adjust the G-2 till the tube just comes on? Where did the G-2 start from? Zero or what?
My contrast is 55 my bright is 32. Picture is great and I will be trying the Eye one out again later so this is very helpful.
Still guessing
Dave
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