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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Robert A. Hill wrote: | Mac,
Yes, i would like the part numbers if you still have them. I would like to check on which versions are in my smps. |
Ok Robert, here's the scoop.
The original Ampro schematic for the newer LVPS's (meaning 3300,3600,4300 and 4600) called for a power mosfet with part number of IXTH12N100. This part was made by IXYS, a component manufacturer. Now every power supply I've worked on had the APT1001RBN made by advanced power technology and was a direct cross. These were most likely originals and Ampro probably used the APT instead of the IXTH because they probably got a better price on the APT's when the supplies went into production and when your talking thousands of parts, every nickel counts. I'm sure Scott could confirm this, maybe. Depends if he was there or not.
Now both those numbers are obsolete so the task to find replacement begins. I chose to search IXYS because they are still in business. I think APT sold out to microsemi but never bothered to confirm. Anyways I found that the IXTH12n100 was replaced by a IXFH12N100. This was also confirmed to me by IXYS engineering. This part is currently available at Digikey.
Now this part is around 18 bucks and the supply requires 2 so with shipping your looking at around 50 bucks.
So about 3 years ago when I needed 2 and the cheap person I am, I contacted IXYS looking for some free samples. I was told that they were no longer in production and there was a new replacement which would be IXFH12N100P but it was not released from engineering yet so I had to order samples. Some time later I received some samples and they have run fine. Engineering also told me the newer number was a more robust then the previous and the previous one was more robust then the original.
I occasionally check digikey for the 100P but didn't see them yet until when I just checked today, however it says they're not in stock and there is a minimum purchase of 90. However they are much cheaper in bulk. But they have the IXFH12N100 in stock.
Any questions?
 |
The APT parts were cheaper than the IXYS so Ampro went with them. I don't think there was a big difference in performance. I just checked DigiKey for their mosfet selection and saw the STW12NK95Z. It is a 12A part rated at 950V instead of 1000V like the originals but they are just a little over $4 each. That would be what I would order if I was replacing the SMPS mosfets. The nominal voltage, in circuit, is about 800V so still plenty of headroom. Lower on resistance and capacitance are a plus.
Scott |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees?
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Since this a performance enhancement thread, what ever happened to the Amquee? Scott, I know you told me the Marquee did some things better than the Ampro and vice versa. So, did anyone ever get any chocolate in peanut butter? Or maybe some peanut butter in chocolate?  Of course, lets not forget about salvaging any valuable parts off Barcos and the supposed king of the hill G90. Maybe a Dallas chip. 
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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There are a half dozen MarPros loose in the world. I think they are (maybe were by now) in Finland in some simulator. 3600 modules with Marquee neck cards for higher bandwidth. It would be a neat mod but alot of work. I'm enjoying my stock 3600 just like it is. The HD video looks fantastic.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
What you don't have a Marquee 
I guess I'd better get an ampro then if if YOU think is GOOD.    
Edit:I hit Quote before I posted what happened here?
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
What you don't have a Marquee
I guess I'd better get an ampro then if if YOU think is GOOD.
Edit:I hit Quote before I posted what happened here? |
I dunno, must have been the way you pushed the button
All fixed now.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | dturco wrote: | | tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
What you don't have a Marquee
I guess I'd better get an ampro then if if YOU think is GOOD.
Edit:I hit Quote before I posted what happened here? |
I dunno, must have been the way you pushed the button
All fixed now. |
My button are having that kind of problem a lot lately since the switch-over.
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | dturco wrote: | | tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
What you don't have a Marquee
I guess I'd better get an ampro then if if YOU think is GOOD.
Edit:I hit Quote before I posted what happened here? |
I dunno, must have been the way you pushed the button
All fixed now. |
My button are having that kind of problem a lot lately since the switch-over. |
Maybe you need a new mouse
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
What you don't have a Marquee
I guess I'd better get an ampro then if if YOU think is GOOD.
Edit:I hit Quote before I posted what happened here? |
The Ampro projectors were made with the "Frankenyoke" focus magnets and the CRT cards are designed for 180V CRT cut-off vs the Marquee cut-off voltage of 160V. Those two things do give the Ampro picture a little more "snap and pop" than the Marquee.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
As I thought about this conversation some more I began to think that it is possible that the ST mosfet is not necessarily the reason for the common failure of itself but rather the design of the circuitry of some of these RPTV's. They may not have been designed well enough to suppress voltage spikes and such to protect the mosfet themselves. Of course this wouldn't account for another manufacturer device to survive.
As far as your choice for a replacement mosfet, I guess this is the difference between an engineer and a repair tech. The original Ampro circuit design calls for a 1000v, 12a mosfet. I would assume this should be rated slightly higher then required....but?????? Now you seem to feel comfortable using a lower spec part then the original and from what I gather is based on what you know to be the operating parameters of the supply. Which I'm sure is factual.
Me as a repair guy wants to replace a failed part with at least equal and even more satisfied with a greater then equal part.
So to elaborate, the original design calls for a 1000v, 12a, 300w part. Your choice is a 950v, 10a, 230w part. My choice is a 1000v, 12a, 463w part(based off the P device). And the price differences are .93 based off Mouser price. Even if the price difference was 12 dollars I would still choose the higher rated part. As a repair guy I dont want my work returning because of a failed part based on the choice of a cheaper part.
And lastly and absolutely no offense to you Scott, if I had a dollar for every time I cursed out an engineers choice of a part.... 
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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TSE is full off information as usual. That info on the Ampro was very interesting Scott thanks. Frankenyokes and more voltage cool  So why does every body pick on the Ampros so much, were they really prone to failure as much as people claim, or is it just bashing for bashings sake?
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Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | There are a half dozen MarPros loose in the world. I think they are (maybe were by now) in Finland in some simulator. 3600 modules with Marquee neck cards for higher bandwidth. It would be a neat mod but alot of work. I'm enjoying my stock 3600 just like it is. The HD video looks fantastic.
Scott |
Scott, of the 2 neck boards(Marquee vs Ampro) which would you think is more of an advantage. Higher cutoff voltage or higher bandwidth? And in combination with Ampro or Marquee tubes?
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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If I had nothing but time on my hands, I'd love to shoe-horn in a set of those ultra high bandwidth Barco neck boards and I even know where there is a set.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | If I had nothing but time on my hands, I'd love to shoe-horn in a set of those ultra high bandwidth Barco neck boards and I even know where there is a set. |
Don't............Don't............Don't believe the hype!
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | If I had nothing but time on my hands, I'd love to shoe-horn in a set of those ultra high bandwidth Barco neck boards and I even know where there is a set. |
Don't............Don't............Don't believe the hype!
Scott |
Why, what's wrong with a 4600HD with Marquee liquid couplings and Barco neck boards? Call it......Amarco
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | tse wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | If I had nothing but time on my hands, I'd love to shoe-horn in a set of those ultra high bandwidth Barco neck boards and I even know where there is a set. |
Don't............Don't............Don't believe the hype!
Scott |
Why, what's wrong with a 4600HD with Marquee liquid couplings and Barco neck boards? Call it......Amarco |
Sure why not? How would a red color corrected C-Element be installed in that?
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | tse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: |
I'm not sure of how much experience you 've had with ST mosfet's Scott but they have a high failure rate. I've had to replace many as they are used in a lot of CRT based RPTV's. I usually cross them out to another manufacturer.
Are you using ST's in the Marquees? |
I have to admit not ever using them in off line power supplies. My experience with them has been in high current (40A) low voltage power supplies where they work good. Their specs are just a little better than other manufactures which does make one wonder do they have some better process than everyone else or are they just playing a little specsmanship. I would still give the 10A, 950V parts a try in the SMPS.
Scott |
As I thought about this conversation some more I began to think that it is possible that the ST mosfet is not necessarily the reason for the common failure of itself but rather the design of the circuitry of some of these RPTV's. They may not have been designed well enough to suppress voltage spikes and such to protect the mosfet themselves. Of course this wouldn't account for another manufacturer device to survive.
As far as your choice for a replacement mosfet, I guess this is the difference between an engineer and a repair tech. The original Ampro circuit design calls for a 1000v, 12a mosfet. I would assume this should be rated slightly higher then required....but?????? Now you seem to feel comfortable using a lower spec part then the original and from what I gather is based on what you know to be the operating parameters of the supply. Which I'm sure is factual.
Me as a repair guy wants to replace a failed part with at least equal and even more satisfied with a greater then equal part.
So to elaborate, the original design calls for a 1000v, 12a, 300w part. Your choice is a 950v, 10a, 230w part. My choice is a 1000v, 12a, 463w part(based off the P device). And the price differences are .93 based off Mouser price. Even if the price difference was 12 dollars I would still choose the higher rated part. As a repair guy I dont want my work returning because of a failed part based on the choice of a cheaper part.
And lastly and absolutely no offense to you Scott, if I had a dollar for every time I cursed out an engineers choice of a part.... |
Who says he chose the part? Maybe some bean counter was standing over him to shoe horn in a $.05 part.
| stefuel wrote: | | tse wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | If I had nothing but time on my hands, I'd love to shoe-horn in a set of those ultra high bandwidth Barco neck boards and I even know where there is a set. |
Don't............Don't............Don't believe the hype!
Scott |
Why, what's wrong with a 4600HD with Marquee liquid couplings and Barco neck boards? Call it......Amarco |
I think he is saying that the Barco's aren't as great as everyone thinks they are. It is funny how people still believe the manufacturer specs after all these years. Does anyone believe that the new LCD pjs are achieving 100k to 1 on/off?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Who says he chose the part? Maybe some bean counter was standing over him to shoe horn in a $.05 part. |
I think you misread that post Spank.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | Who says he chose the part? Maybe some bean counter was standing over him to shoe horn in a $.05 part. |
I think you misread that post Spank. |
You know what they say about spanking? Do it to much and you'll go blind
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | Who says he chose the part? Maybe some bean counter was standing over him to shoe horn in a $.05 part. |
I think you misread that post Spank. |
No, I was just pointing out that sometimes crappier parts are put into products despite the what the designer may have wanted.
I was really referencing the last part of that post. As a repair guy myself, I have cursed my manufacturers a million times. When I do a repair I don't want to hear from the customer about a failed repair. I only want to hear "This is my single daughter. She was in Playboy last month."
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