CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:35 am Post subject: Reel-to-reel help...

First, some background: My wife just lost her uncle to cancer last week... He was a pretty neat guy - played guitar, he was an entrepreneur, he was a car guy... Just an all-around good guy.

Anyway, his wife stopped by tonight, and handed me a recording of her husband from a band he played in... from 1961. It's a 600' tape on a 5-inch reel, recorded at 3-3/4 ips. She asked me if I could make a CD of it... I know I can record the audio - I have a good A/D converter and good software... But, I have a few questions about reel-to-reel...

1) What are the chances that 40-year old tape is going to hold together long enough to capture it? I looked at the first 3-feet or so, and it looked pretty beat-up, but the oxide looked surprisingly good for being damn near 50 years old. What about print-through? Is it going to even be listenable if it's been on the spool wrapped just so (and never re-wound) for 30 or 40 years?

2) I don't have a reel-to-reel, so I started looking around. Looks like either junk in the $50-100 range around here, or $300-500+, with barely anything between. I don't want to spend a ton of money to do this, but I don't want to use junk, either. Anybody have any recommendations of a model I could buy reasonably say, on ebay that would be a decent machine?

My old man has a Sony TC360 he's had since he bought it new in the late 60's or early 70's. I could borrow it and use it, but I know it needs belts and rollers. Curt... Is that something you could do? Or is it easy to do if I just bought one of these kits:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350239717816

Obviously, given the age of the tape, I'm more concerned with gentle tape-handling than I am with high fidelity.

Just curious what you guys would do.

Thanks,
SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:11 am Post subject:

Bake the tape first.

I bought a 'jen-u-wine' Runco food dehydrator. Put the tape on one of the trays and let it sit for 12-24 hours, time is not crucial. The 125 degree heat will loosen the glue slightly, rebind the oxide to the tape, and you're good.

That's really all there is to it. I wouldn't worry about a studio calibre recorder, the 630 should be fine., Remember the deck it was recorded on was most likely a mono consumer unit, and the 630 will be a better unit.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject:

Wow, OK. Excellent. So, should I go ahead and buy that ebay belt and roller kit to refurb the 630?

12 hours in a Ronco food dehydrator. Got it. Thanks - I forgot all about that. I read about it once on video tapes. I'll look up tape baking and see what I can find.

Thanks, Curt!

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject:

I'd grab it, the price is about right.

aenglish · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject:

I have two Sony reel to reels from the mid/late 60's era. I can't remember the model numbers off the top of my head, but the trouble I had with mine was with the rubber coated drive wheels internally. The rubber had dried out and would slip, making it almost impossible to maintain a constant tape speed.

If the 630 is similar, it may need more than just the belt and capstan puck.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:

Hmm... That would suck to tear the old Sony apart and put $50 worth of belts and pinch roller into it and still have trouble.... What do you think about that, Curt?

Another issue I'm pondering... Would there be any benefit to capturing at 88.2 or 176.4 khz and resampling back down to 16/44.1 for CD? What about playing back at 7.5ips vs. 3.75? Would that reduce tape noise, or only if it was recorded at the higher speed? I think I can still do cleanup and noise reduction at the higher sample rates. Might make for a cleaner end product. I don't know... Maybe the tape/recording is so old/low-fi, it won't make any difference how I record it.

I can't wait to hear what it sounds like.

SC

zaphod · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale

what i've heard about the old sony's is that they like to be played. if you let them sit they "tolerate" that less than say an old teac or revox. i once let my old Tascam and Revox sit for years idle and they picked up an ran like a breeze when i fired them up.

in general though reels are tough buggers. built and designed like CRTs Smile

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject:

Get something called Rubber Renue (also under other names) which is a fluid that restores and softens rubber. Works great, and you can then check the deck out. Fixing an RTR is as much mechanical as it is electrical. I'm working on a 630 right now. Take the set out of the case, take off the front and everything is exposed.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:

Curt... Is it reasonably easy work? I'm not a tech, but I'm certainly a mechanically-inclined DIY'er. Should I do it myself, or should I just send it up for you to recondition? Wink

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:

Not worth the shipping price really, dive into it. But frankly, try it with a scrap tape first, maybe it needs nothing.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject:

Cool. Will do. I'm pretty sure it needs some work, though. I'll have to ask, but I'm pretty sure I remember my dad saying he needed to find somebody to work on it and that he'd love to get it going again. Maybe I can order some parts and the Rubber Renue, "steal" it from him at Thanksgiving, and give it back to him working for Christmas.

For now, though... I just found a local small business (1-man shop) not 2 miles from me that runs an audio/video duplication/dubbing service. He has a reel-to-reel, and records to a PC and burns a CD... get this... for $25/per recorded hour. Wow! He said my 30-minutes of tape would be $12.50! That seems REALLY cheap to me. I asked, and he's also willing to let me bring my MacBook Pro with Logic Pro running on it and my audio interface to do the recording and cleanup myself. Cool! For that crazy cheap money, I'll do that and save the refurbing for later.

Now... On to the tape-baking. Hmm... Ronco food dehydrator, eh? Where the hell am I going to get one of those?!?!? I don't want to buy one just to bake one tape...

SC

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

People have them (Ronco and other brands) gathering dust in their pantries all over. Try posting in CL or freecycle and you might get one for free, or not much.

zaphod · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale

you can also bake in a std convection oven. (well...... not a gas one, too much moisture in a gas oven) if you stuff it in for
8 hours at 120 degrees you'll be fine. some people claim that it has to be a convection oven as a std oven won't maintain a low steady temp and will have fluctuations. of course you're tying up the oven for that amount of time which could hit low WAF. the dedicated fruit drier solves both concerns.

oh - and is this on a plastic reel? they can warp when baking.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject:

We do have a fancy-schamncy convection oven, but I'm not sure it will go down to 120 F. I know it has some whiz-bang controls for bread (proofing?) - maybe one of those settings will hold at a low temp. Question

Yes, it's a plastic reel... What do I do, then? If I move it to another reel first, that defeats the purpose of baking it, doesn't it? Can I bake it, and just replace the reel if it warps?

SC

PS - This is some great info, guys... Whatever I learn here will be reapplied after I get my old man's R2R working. He's got at least a couple-dozen R2R's for the late-60's/early-70's that would be awesome to get captured and put on CD. I think he might even have an hour or two of me talking when I was a toddler. How cool would THAT be for me to hear! Wink

zaphod · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale

the problem with the old tapes is that the binder is degraded. this causes the squeeking you can hear from a tape being played and it means that the magnetic oxide is being scraped off on the heads, the capstan, the roller the tape guides and so on. if you FF the tape from one reel to another you still get oxide on the guides and so on. but at least its not on the heads, rollers and capstan.

the plastic has a risk of warp, but not a guarenteed disastor. how's that for a comfort level...

that 12.50 transfer is looking better and better for something as unique as what you have on tape.