CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

Just in case the low light output levels reported at HTHF (HomeTheaterHiFi.com) were an anomaly, I checked another review at UltimateAVmag.com. Some of the comments there were:

"the flip side of this black level performance is a top-end that doesn't go as bright as many other projectors out there. The S4 is not deficient in this regard, but definitely sits at the low end of the light output range among digital projectors."

"I did occasionally want more horsepower in light output than I could get with the S4, even with the iris opened to the F3.0 setting." (Which, BTW, drops the peak CR from 2650 to 1900.)

"Even with the light output driven as high as it could go without gross color distortion, the image was just a touch dim. This characteristic seems to have noticeably worsened with the bulb's age."

Keep in mind this is on an 80" wide screen(!) with 1.3 gain. That's not even 7' wide, so I'm not sure how you'd ever be satisfied, Dave, on your 9.5' wide screen.

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Brian Hampton · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1173

Hi,

I switched... I went from a minty G70 to a Sony VW60.

Here's how it happened to me ...

My G70 started having a problem... Then... It shut down with code. I replaced a board and everything was fine.

Eventually... it had a different problem..... People were coming for movie night so I got help to take down the hush box and re-seated the boards and everything was fine for movie night but a few days later the problem came back.

I took the hush box down a handful of more times and my hush box was huge. It was a 2 person job to remove and reinstall it so I had to often wait for help.

At some point ... I couldn't fix the G70 anymore so I ordered the VW60.

The day before the VW 60 arrived.... I got the G70 working again but it was already taken down from it's ceiling mount.

I guess maybe it still works fine... I know the tubes are still pristine (I pulled off the lenses to check.)

Honestly the G70 wins over the VW60 for pure picture quality.

However,... I use a PS3 and play games and love the fact that there's no chance of burn in and also when a game outputs 720p or 1080i or who knows what small change in frequency ... I don't have to try to dial in another memory block.

The VW60 needs no hush box and therefore needs no hush box fan so that's an energy savings also the VW60 uses half as much energy as well.

I feel like I was lucky to have a great CRT FP for so many years. It's really the ultimate quality and I don't think any future display device will get close to the natural and realistic look of CRT.

My G70 is still sitting here... I can't sell it for what I think it's worth. And... I don't want to part with it anyway... too many good memories.

-Brian

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Brian, just curious, why the VW60?

Brian Hampton · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1173

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

RS2 for $2300 now, wonder who is switching....

Bucketfoot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I'm nowhere near ready to switch to digital. But the quality of digitals has gotten to the point that I won't feel really bad if I end up having to go digital tomorrow.

I just got a demo of the new VDC single chip, LED-lamped 1080p projector, thanks to TSE, and it's pretty darned impressive. The black
level isn't dead black but it's certainly acceptable, and the color gamut is obviously HUGE. Its primary colors are really impressive.
The red is the deepest I've yet seen, the green doesn't have a trace of yellow, and the blue is as good as it gets. It also has some
very cool tricks up its sleeve.

I could live with that PJ. My 9501LC is better in some respects but in some ways, the digital is better.

CJ

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

CJ, is the VDC unit completely switching off the LEDs when the call for a complete black field is signaled?

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

No, they stay on...I think. TSE knows for sure. I saw it in video mute and it was VERY difficult to see any residual raster in a well darkened (but not totally dark) room.

CJ

Ridebreck · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:29 am Post subject:

I'm digging up an old conversation here, but I switched along time ago (though I now have no projector). The short and skinny of it is that I had neither the time or the inkling to be a videophile anymore. It had gotten to the point that I was looking for image flaws instead of just sitting back and enjoying the movie / TV show.

I had toyed with some minor mods for my 8111 and had a pretty good image going, but it still needed some work - primarily to fix the seemingly daily convergence drift that I was getting. At the time I made the switch, I was able to part out my Marquee and buy the Mits HC3000 along with a mount and still came out money ahead. The setup was a breeze and the image was plenty good enough for my wife and I. Hell, I even got a "not bad" from Dave one day when he stopped by to see it.

So I guess it all comes down to what's important to the potential buyer. Obviously for some, digital still doesn't offer what they're looking for. For others it does. I'm currently shopping for a house and I'm not sure if I'm even going to have a dedicated room in the future, even if I have the space for one in the basement. I may simply opt for a ~55" - 60" flatscreen so that we won't be bothered by ambient light. Different strokes for different folks...

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:53 am Post subject:

Went to a home theater meet this weekend, and saw two really nice dedicated DIY rooms. Both had AT scope screens, and neither were big budget by any means... One was an RS-25 and the other was a Panasonic AE3000... While I much preferred the image from the RS-25, I could EASILY live with the image from the AE3000 - never mind the AE4000.

Sad as I am to say it, but if I had to start from scratch now, and I had the room to do it, I'd definitely trade a little black level and some other minor visueal artifacts for the visual impact and immersion the big scope screen has. The low-end digitals like the AE4000 are just getting that good. Let's just say I had a pretty good case of HT envy when I left the second, cheaper of the two, DIY HTs.

SC

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

It all comes down to what your #1 variable is in picture quality. If black level isn't it then buy a flashlight.

overclkr · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4227

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject:

Hey, Cliffy... What up?

Dude, that makes total sense! Rack up the hours on the bulb machine playing Rock Band and Call of Duty, and save the phosphor in the G90's for movies.

Look... There are things I don't like about certain digital machines. On the AE3000 in particular, I still notice some pretty bad banding on solid gradient fields, and it becomes painfully obvious during fades. (To be fair, it was worse on the über-expensive DLP Cinema projector at the Avatar 3D screening I saw a month or so ago than it was on the AE3000 I saw over the weekend.) But... and this is a big but... It's not as if the picture from CRT is artifact-free. I mean, you take some bad along with the good. For instance, I've got slight geometric distortion (damn you Sony!) that bugs the crap out of me, I've got a little waviness on the left side of the screen/raster at 1080p, and of course sharpness is far inferior to any 1080p digital. Full fades to black still make me giddy, but I think at this point, I'd be ready to let that go to get some of the other advantages.

The main problem I have is that what I'm in really in love with is the AT scope setup... You basically have that already. I just don't have the room to do it, or I think I would. But, the digital does make it really easy - especially the zoom feature on the AE3000/4000. That's pretty trick. No more expensive expansion lenses and sleds. If watching movies is more important to a guy than obsessing over one aspect of picture quality, digital is getting damn good - even at the low end.

Next room... HT 2.0, I guess.

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject:

So, your point is that you're willing to compromise half a dozen other aspects of image quality to get one that's better?

SC

Ridebreck · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject:

For me, the ability to go CIH is pretty much the only thing keeping projection in the picture (no pun intended) for my future room. It's pretty damned appealing, I must admit. It's all going to come down to whether it's a justifiable option for us. At present time, the vast majority of viewing that I and my family do is HDTV. Movies are a very small portion overall. If we think that is likely to continue as the kids get older, then we'll probably opt for flat panel. The one exception to that is if we find a house where I could go with a rear-projection setup (i.e. crawlspace off the basement).

God_TM · Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 122 Location: Hillsboro, OR

I haven't exactly switched (my NEC PG6Xtra is still collecting dust in my closet as my current appartment is too small for such a beast), but at work I've had the opportunity to build a new 'theater room' (well... that's what I call it... to my boss it's known as a board meeting/presentation room Mr. Green

).

I have in this room:

Epson Cinema Pro 9500UB
Yamaha RX-V11 receiver
11 in-wall speakers, and 2 klipsch XW-300D subs
135" 'cheapie' motorized 1.1 gain screen (boss couldn't justify the cost of getting an acoustically transparent screen, so that messed up my orginial config, and I ended up putting the front speakers higher than I would like).
Comcast HD cable and a PS3 to drive HD content

I'm very pleased with the image (and sound)! The blacks are very good (not quite PG6Xtra good though)... But I haven't even calibrated the system yet!

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

You guy should really try a masking system if your not using one now....Its a nice cheap compromise to CIH, makes a huge difference.

Mike