CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[km987654]

Not sure how your hot water heaters are made in the US but here (AU) the thermal insulation on the most popular heaters is good for about 55c yet the thermostats are usually adjusted to 65c from the factory. This means that the unit is contantly switching on to manitain its 65c. You can adjust the thermostat down to 55c though and that will reduce power consumption.

[Sunstone]

no my bill is crazy and my heat and water heater are gas and thats to high to,last mouth 302.00 electric in summer hit over 450.00 and i live in florida the temp has been 60 70. well thanks for input on my projector power ,i can aleast relax and enjoy my crt!

[WanMan]

I still would find it difficult to believe it is your CRT. My bill is nothing like yours and I run a lot of electronics in passive-use. Its not uncommon for me to constantly be consuming electricity. Even in the hottest months of Summer I have an oversized AC for the 2nd floor to keep my computer room at 72ºF when its 95ºF outside. And AC compressors consume a lot of electricity.

Sounds like someone is siphoning your electricity. What are you paying per kWh? Besides, I would think a nice simple test with a Kil-A-Watt would give you a rough estimate.

[dturco]

[Spanky Ham]

[dculberson]

Well, I finally switched for good a few months ago. I picked up a used Panasonic pt-ae1000u (got a GREAT deal) and it's been awesome. It's quiet, bright, 1080p is pretty incredible on it, and it fits in the tiny room I set aside for home theater when I moved about 6 months back. I miss having a huge theater room but when our gas bills this winter totaled less than $400 (compared to almost that much per month at the old house), I had to smile.

The projector is superior in every way - except black levels - to my Barco 1208. Black levels are incredibly good compared to the LCDs of yesterday, though. And the significantly higher brightness more than makes up for it. I can have the lights on and still have a watchable picture. Direct sunlight can cause a problem, and since the theater room has a south and west facing window I'll need to get blackout drapes for the few times I watch movies around sunset. Other times just the blinds are sufficient.

My only problem so far has been that it turns out the previous owner messed up one of the pins in the second HDMI port on the projector. But since I have an HDMI switching receiver, I don't need it. I was bummed, but the spare bulb helped offset my upset. Oh, also the brightness was pulsing for a while, but apparently that's a common issue with this particular hid bulb when it gets around 1000 hours on it. I let it run at high brightness for a few hours and it worked itself off.

I'm running 1080p on a Da-lite Cinema Fast-fold pure white screen, approx 84" diagonal. Receiver is a Yamaha RX-V665bl, speakers are Klipsch Synergy Quintet III, old dBX 15" subwoofer, source is PS3. Not a super high end system but since the room is all of 8' x 10', it's definitely more than enough. I have all the pieces to run the wiring in the walls but since I'm renovating the old house to sell it I haven't had time to install it. (side note, Monoprice awesome HDMI wall plates for a great price.)

I'll miss the tinkering, but my wife loves being able to operate the system now. That was my biggest hurdle with the old one, finding a way to integrate everything so there's a simple way to switch sources. The Yamaha does upconversion of all sources to HDMI so source switching is a single button press.

Edit: I forgot to add: I have been reasonably happy with the Yamaha for the price, but probably wouldn't buy it if I had it to do over again. The audio quality just isn't quite there, it has 1% THD at max output and I can tell when listening to music loud. Then again, with my room size, the only time I have it up that much is to show off. But I would probably go with a higher end Yamaha or an Onkyo with an additional fan if I was to do it over. (modern Onkyos seem to run very, very hot.)

[Mark_A_W]

[WanMan]

Mark, no one is watching a projector for 5 hours a day unless it is Curt. The rest of us are looking at the projected image on the screen.

[Sengimage]

Please School me here. I've never owned a CRT Front Projection system. BUt, I have owned lcd home theatre units and since 2006 have flipped between increasingly better DLP projection systems. I have seen my friend's Runco which is very old and another Panasonic CRT system and both were Honking huge by comparison. And seemingly require so much maintenance.

With a really high end DLP projector today is there really a significant difference in comparison to a CRT projector? I thought CRT's were yesterdays technology and on the way out, but it seems from this thread...well, I'm confused.

So please Educate me on the ideal qualities a videophile looks for and where each technology either fails or excels.

[mc86]

Hi -

Your questions are pretty straightforward, but you may get answers (with passion) that are not. While I'm not the best person to "school you", as others generously try to school me on here, perhaps I can take first crack at helping you. So...here's a brain dump and some links for you to think about.

1) With respect to what a videophile should want...well, to me it is simple: a video display chain that faithfully reproduces either what the film captured or the computer generated. One can express this technically, but this is what it boils down to. Perhaps reading what some people look for in "reference" quality source material will help you to think about the "ideal qualities" are.

2) CRT projectors are "out", in that they are (I think as of a few months ago) no longer in production at VDC. Their technology and what they can do is still very much IN. For example, top of the line machines made before 2000 can display flawless 1080p with ease. Until people have higher than 1080p resolution source material, distribution system, and displays, many assert CRTs will not be topped if picture quality alone is the measure of goodness. There are market reasons CRT technology has lost in the marketplace, and that is fine, understandable, etc. But one should separate the technologies and engineering from what the marketplace wants and can sustain.

3) To make decisions about what is "best" for you, keep in mind different technologies are designed to meet very different goals. Accordingly, there are significant trade-offs. As such, a lot depends what trade-offs matter most to you. As you learn a little more about CRTs, bear that in mind.

A great place to help you frame your thinking is the good overview on pages 1 and 2 of the CRT Primer (also up top of this page). You might skim that primer, take a look around the site a little, and ask more Qs -- folks on here are mostly friendly! For example, here is an active thread where someone asked some general and specific Qs and got cursory feedback.

All of that said, I'm one of a small minority amongst the regular posters nowadays in two ways. For one, I am somewhere between newbie (with really just over 1 year actual daily use) and dangerous sophomore (know just enough to get into trouble!). Second, I have an "entry level" CRT. Most of the folks on here have been at it for years and have progressively "graduated" to increasingly capable CRT projectors. My model is on the verge of extinction, with maybe 20 people (?!) in the world still using it. But they can be had - a projector identical to mine sold on ebay in fine working order with decent tubes last week for $120 (local pickup)! That said, here is what is truly important to everyone on here: I love the 90inch wide 1080i image I have, I am learning, and I can still move up to a way better CRT if I choose. But I am poor and patient and ease to please! More to your Q, I like my CRT better than the ~$1500 digital home theater unit a friend has. There are aspects about his image that "beat" mine -- but to me, my image feels "right" -- my colors seem true (his has some mickey mouse greyscale her can't adjust), my blacks are black (his are good, I was surprised), and there is a sense of depth in my image that his lacks. Now again, I'm not experienced or knowledgeable enough to get into a point by point technical discussion, but others in here can. All I know, is my that I prefer my 1997, entry level CRT. Plus, I am a tinkerer and enjoy learning about it, toying with it, and the process of doing so. I have about $750 into total (the PJ, the HDMI->RGBHV converter, and an entire set of spare parts) my machine and a lot of time, to be sure. Sounds like you are willing to spend quite a bit more...if so, play! Or post where you live and see if someone will let you come over and see their CRT for yourself...

However, I only watch in the darkness of my basement, so it is bright enough for me. CRTs are generally not very bright, so daylight watching from across the living room in not practical. While I am happy with the image quality, I'm not a videophile and one would not tolerate my machine. For the best in CRTs, you need larger tubes -- the larger tubes have better resolving capabilities and provide a brighter image. So, if I got a 9" machine, I'd be able to do the same screen size as my 7", but with as close to perfect a 1080p image as one might hope for that would also be more bright. Note that a challenge with CRTs comes in the middle ground...I might have a CRT with 8" tubes that is capable of displaying a 1080p image...but I might not want to! Why not?! Well, because the scan lines might overlap, thereby yielding a "soft" image. However, as there is no "native resolution" a CRT (especially coupled to a video processor) provides incredible flexibility in what you display and how you want it to look. To get every last bit of picture quality, many users on here store different display modes (and attendance calibrations, etc) for each of their sources and even aspect ratios! If that is confusing, go back and read more of the CRT Primer!

Hope this little rant is of some help!

cheers,
Matt

[Sengimage]

Yes, in fact it is very helpful to understand the perspective from the CRT point of view. So I'm guessing the signals for CRT are in the analog realm and require some conversion process?

I've never owned a CRT front projection unit, but then again I've also never owned a digital LCD or DLP unit that was less than $5k. So I wonder if the fact that I'm now dabbling in equipment that is by all means considered the upper end on the technology that has come to replace CRT's if I'm really missing anything?

I mean my setup is certainly nice, I occasionally can view Anamorphic format with the HTB kit installed and the unit is superbly bright where I can view in a full lit room if I chose to. Not that I do, both my rooms are nicely sound dampened with sliding panels and multi level theater seating. I just never knew if I missed the boat with regards to CRT. Or if dabbling in the upper regions of the DLP technologies is currently the cream of the crop and renders my curiosity a moot point?

I'm certainly sold on the fact that it is (DLP)...only because I'm a tech head with over 30 years of experience in I.T. And I basically followed these technologies as they matured to what they are now. I have been an audiophile all my life and even competed in IASCA competitions early in the car audio market. And now with my own home and family I've settled into the opportunities for dabbling in Video Home theatre and now with 3d things have upped the requirements for projection units once again. So it was my quest for the best and for future scalability that drove my decisions I think long term ROI on everything I do. Ummm price was a part of it, too. But my pockets were decent for looking a bit beyond the $1500 offerings....most weren't of the quality I demanded. Besides...I'm a try it kind of guy who likes to proceed with a proof of concept approach....you know... "Are you sure its supposed to offer that and be this good...okay prove it" . And if it falls short of the mark then I return it or bash it. In the long run if some manufacturers really feel they have hit on some diamond in the rough... I can sometimes get a new unit comped for the Proof of concept.

Again, not experiencing CRT for myself other than sitting in a few venues at a friend's house or an affiliation...I really wasn't impressed. One was a Crystal View 2 CRT, the other was a Runco DTV 991. And Honestly ... neither really was that much so impressive to convince me to drop the DLP IN83 back in the day. Or now the IN5316HD. I suppose I wouldn't mind those CRT units, but they were so BIG and well... I assisted with the color calibration and convergence tweaking on both... which was more time than I could expect my kids or my spouse to want to invest in one of them. We do a lot of home theatre in my house. Many different media sources and of course video gaming between two tweaked rooms in the home with these DLP projectors. I can see that my older kids are fine with ..fine tuning to their tastes. And I also have my optimal settings.

I can't see that happening with CRT. And My screens are noticeably larger than both the CRT units I had the hands on with. Sure they were bigger than the average panel TV... but my screens are over 13' wide which it seems I would need a lot of real estate to get the CRTs to throw enough to fill them???? Not sure. So if I purchased one used just to get a feel for it... I don't know if it would give the BigScreen any justice unless I broke out the back walls to my theatre's and mounted these big things in the yard? Again not sure. And if I went that far back would the picture soften up ???? Not sure.

So is in today's market... is the CRT a choice for the enthusiast more so than a videophile? Is it more about getting a bargain on an older technology that can still perform? If its a matter of budget and bang for the buck is it still worth it to look for CRT Vs todays Digital options? Or is the choice more like Guys that buy a classic Harley, because its a bit nostalgic, affordable and still works even though newer current models with brand new tech will outperform it?

Basically ... I'm still confused. Not to say I don't respect CRT... I just don't really get it I guess.

[mr_ro_co]

[mc86]

Now that I see your skills, price points, wants, expectations, and the like, I'll stand back and let some others on here continue to chime-in. Hopefully, some of the expert voices <Curt, Tim, CraigR, Nashou, many other> will post.

That said, wow...13ft wide screens. You are already sitting ~20ft away to have the correct field of view. The G90 install manual shows 120"H screen (160"W) needs to mounted (225in) 18+ft back from the screen, so you'd be fine there. It can do it. However, that much area is probably too big for a 9"LC CRT to be as bright as you'd like. I think folks on here would tell you to use a width of something closer to 9ft or 10ft for a 9" tubed CRT, but I dunno.

CRTs do require a very careful initial setup, but really not much once it has been done. With a top of the line video processor, you can have multiple setting for a vast array of sources and ARs and would be fine from there. You are right about CRTs needing analog inputs, but converting input cards that accept HDMI that are specifically made for the nice 9"CRTs.

You would catch folks attention better on the CRT Projector board more so than this digital one - a lot of folks on curt's site never visit the digital board. I would suggest you lurk, read a bit more background, etc. and post your specific Qs there.

Again, folks will take care of you.
Bests,
Matt

[Sengimage]

Then I feel fortunate I have never seen any of these negatives with my DLP choices (none of which are or were $1500 units). And with my choices I really can't complain about flesh tones or blacks. I'm very happy since they are realistic. Higher refresh rates, faster processors, faster color wheels...its only going to get better. In life you always get what you pay for...whether it is upfront or in sweat. What you invest in it will be rewarded in the results. This should apply across the board. So I certainly respect all you CRT owners out there. Again... like the guy on a Hyabusa nodding props to the guy on a Harley. You gotta respect a good ride whether its from today or what inspired it from yesterday. Its all good.

[HogPilot]

I'm curious as to what qualities that people here find in common between 3-chip DLPs and CRT projectors, aside from the fact that both can simultaneously draw R, G, and B. 3-chip DLP is decidedly sharper and brighter than CRT - if one wanted a digital counterpart to CRT, it would have to be LCoS based on on/off and ANSI CR, brightness, and sharpness.

I have yet to see a 3-chip DLP that remotely compares in PQ to a CRT - those who claim that the two are similar seem more concerned in propping up an anti-digital agenda (based upon price) than accurately comparing projection technology types. If one truly wants CRT-type PQ in a digital, they need look no further than JVC's lower end PJs for the last several generations. Those will undecidedly come closer in PQ to CRT than will any 3-chip DLP in terms of image smoothness, light output, on/off CR, and ANSI CR.

[mr_ro_co]

[Nashou66]

Steve you Marquee Huger!! Typical Liberal lol

Nashou!!!!!

[mr_ro_co]

[WanMan]

I always thought the DLP technology catered to the light canon crowd. For them, its better to have plenty of light (and high BL) to go along with the structure-revealing pixels, dithering, and occasional stick mirror.

[Spanky Ham]

I know Art compared the new Sony 4k to his 3 chip dlp and found that he still preferred his dlp. I have always thought that if dlp could get to 20k on/off cr then it would look really good. Unfortunately, I don't think TI is going to put to much more R&D into this. I am curious if anyone else can develop and manufacture their own dlp.