CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Audio Conundrum for me is that even in the Po South which is where I live I cannot find some decently-priced good speakers for an audio or family room. Additionally, amplifiers, whether new or used, are still commanding high prices. Why? Its not like technology is in them to revolutionize the basis for their asking prices.

Advice? Maybe continue to stay away from audio listening?

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject:

What I've found is that for some reason, speakers do not hold their value at all, unless you're talking some audiofool brand, or something really classic. I bought some nice speakers o nCraigslist, thinking I could flip them, but not a chance. I'd troll CL if you're looking for vintage stuff, sometimes you see something like JBL 4311s for a giveaway price.

If you're looking for power amps, the price is WAY down from what they were 10 years ago, both new and used. Pro power amps are dirt cheap, they're not even worth buying and repairing at this point for me. Decent surround preamps etc, yes, those are still pricey.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

I checked Craigslist yesterday and nothing reasonably good, in brand or price, was found. I had hoped in the Home Bubble Burst economy there would be people looking to off-load some good speakers for the cheap, but I must have missed the opportunities.

But then again I guess my idea of 'desperate' (40% or less for MSRP of product) might be pushing it, but some fools around here want 80% of list price. Nuts. And I always seem to be in great competition (as a buyer) for buying used amplifiers. I'd like to know what power amplifiers (products/prices) you find to be way down. This could me mis-evaluation of what amplifiers are worth in the market-valuation matrix.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject:

Define first what you're looking for. I deal mainly with pro audio stuff, but for some examples of cheap audio that I would find suitable for HT or home use:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4311-Studio-Monitors-Pair-Good-Condition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2c4f51b067QQitemZ190309314663QQptZVintageQ5fElectronicsQ5fR2QQsalenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-POWER-BASE-2-PRO-POWER-AMPLIFIER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem3ef4dc1de7QQitemZ270396038631QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.com/Crown-DC300A-II-Stereo-Amplifier_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5189dd7233QQitemZ350205342259QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

well i can see where Curt's coming from because A) He's old Very Happy

and B) he installs commercial audio systems in bars which have little to do with absolute hi-fidelity and more to do with playing loud for tens of thousands of hours without failures. Those are both useful features but I would think in a private listening room they are not the primary goal. For one, a lot of the Crown amps have built in cooling fans and you don't want that competing with your music.
SEcond, paying $300. + dollars for a pair of ancient JBL box speakers made of 1/2" think particle board and housing old rotted paper cones seems kinda nuts.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject:

Hey, Dragan... stay in Colorado. I'll sniff you out if you leave the state.... Very Happy

We'd actually have a good audio argument if we ever met. Don' t think we'd agree on much, but it would be fun.

To counter your points:

1) The JBL 4311 came out as a studio monitor, a near field monitor as they are known today. They sounded so nice, they went into a lot of homes as a result. I have a pair, and love them. The foam around the tweeters die over time, it's a matter of sticking new ones on, takes 5 minutes.

2) I'd put the 4311s against any $1K set of stereo speakers on the shelf today. Despite what you say, speaker technology really hasn't changed much really in the last 50 years. Oh sure, you have your powered subwoofers and higher power handling drivers, but the technology is all based on principles of physics that haven't changed since the dawn of time.

3) Most pro amps have fans built in, but don't kick in until you're really driving the amp to levels beyond where you'd hear the amp. Which would lead me to ask: Do you want a convection cooled consumer amp that overheats and dies within 5 years, or do you want pro, where fans kick in when they need to? Give me a pro amp any day.

4) FWIW, no question that the Altec A7 are classics, but a friend's father had a pair driven with a 160 watt per channel Kenwood, and I hated the sound of the horn. Great bass and mids, but crappy shrill highs. THe best horns that I ever heard were a pair of not well known wooden Fostex horns. Fostex (yes, same company that made multitrack recorders) did some speaker work, including the 30" woofer, but didn't sell well here in North America. Still, sweet sounding horns, I wish I never sold them.

I still say, short of signal processing, give me vintage equipment any day. One of the nicest sounding HT systems I've been at uses 1970s vintage Phase Linear amplifiers.

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

I wasnt going to reply... Wan jumped all over me in the paint thread.....

I'll just say three letters....PSB

Now i'll run and hide Embarassed

ecrabb · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Audio Conundrum

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

SC I expect to pay a lot, because others spend too much time hovering over the 4sale ads for me to get a good deal. Smile

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10187 Location: kamloops BC

those would be very nice, if the amps have not been abused or used by a DJ...as big amps often are.
I agree with Curt-go listen to the gear that is for sale locally in your budget. I have a pair of those same JBL in my living room driven with a Marantz 2285B this same setup was sounding great back when Laverne and Shirley was #1 on TV and still sounds good enough to make friends who have spent many thousands on speakers and gear squirm when they listen to my "70's westcoast stereo" Mr. Green

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Atlanta is not a place to be buying anything audio locally because every wannabe so-called musician drives the pricing up. For instance, the last time I walked into a pawn shop some dipchit wanted $60 for a bare CD-ROM drive made in 1993. WTF?

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject:

Keep in mind as well (and my HT room is an excellent example of what NOT to do, that the room and treatment thereof will make a HUGE difference in how speakers sound.

BTW Draganm- The horns were actual horns, not super tweeters. Here's the woofers that were mated with the horns:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fostex-L469-15inch-Speakers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1234Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a3Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a1aaf9c6QQitemZ230345603526QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

Can't find anything on the horns, but they are out there.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:57 am Post subject:

OK, found the dream setup. Seriously, if anyone ever sees these, I WANT them!

http://www.gray.mb.ca/fostex/RWO-FOSTEX%20LABORATORY%20SERIES%20MONITORS.pdf

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:16 am Post subject:

Sorry, I wrote that wrong, I see how you misinterpreted.

The set I had was a raw wooden horn with a Fostex driver with a horn loaded 15" Fostex woofer as per the link. I guess the studio versions had the supertweeter as well, I've never seen those though.

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

alright Wan, here's the end to all your bitching. A complete 5.1 system with all Full Size speakers and sub of quality build for $999. brand new. Even come with genuine Cherry wood veneer instead of a Vinly sticker.

http://www.av123.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=294&category_id=51&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37