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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | dturco wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | I bought the perfect tool for the job and it's mult-use. You should all do it my way. It's quick and a hell-a-va lot more fun then pushing them out.
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to name the tool.  Eastwing 22oz framming hammer. No soaking, no pressing and no waiting 
Really, when you think about it, no one seems to be sending tubes in for rebuilding any more because they suck so bad and they take up way less space in the trash when you remove them my way |
But what if all you want to do is put in a C-Element. Your way seems to damage the tube no? |
What is the name of this thread???
"Damage the tube no?" damage the tube hell yes. That's the whole idea. And if someone is pissing you off, you can just mumble their name while you are swinging away
You probably didn't like my post in your red c-element thread but someone needed to stop you and make you think before you break something. Don't worry, it won't happen again. |
Stefuel take it easy. I was joking. I should have used one of these . I don't mind if you tell it like it is, I f*ck*** up I know it.
It was funny in my head. I will post first then play with the 9500 after responses. 10 years and I'm the first one that admitted it. Go ME.
Keep posting I know your trying to help and I appreciate it.
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Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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PiDD
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Why is that song "wins the lottery and dies the next day" playing in my head!
BTW ... its was an estwing! 
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| PiDD wrote: |
BTW ... its was an estwing! |
you actually did that with the C-element in place? = Butchery
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Dragan, i was going to tell you to try it with no glue or silicon. these are new and I dont think they need it.
Used ones do because they were already compressed and the decompression when reusing them is why i think used ones need RTV.
it's just my theory. I'll try wehn i get back home. In the Rome Airport now.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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PiDD
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | you actually did that with the C-element in place? = Butchery
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Yeah im not a LC guy and didnt know better!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Dragan, i was going to tell you to try it with no glue or silicon. these are new and I dont think they need it. Used ones do because they were already compressed and the decompression when reusing them is why i think used ones need RTV.it's just my theory. I'll try wehn i get back home. In the Rome Airport now.
Athanasios |
Too late, I siliconed it all together last night. From the factory they are all RTV'd so I just duplicated that. I really don't want to take chances anyway, this is a HUGE PITA to do. Good news is the new boot fit perfectly.
My only concern, unrelated to boot, is I potted the tube and let it sit for 48 hours. The little bit that extruded out on the tube face still had not cured after 48 hours  I mean WTF? how can that stuff stay gummy for 2 days. the really wierd part is that the much thicker 1/4" wide bead on the back of the tube hardened completely. Does it have something to do with me leaving the tube face down (standing up) for that period. Could the RTV facing down stayed soft and stuff pointing up cured? I don't get it, it was all from a single cartridge of GE 100% pure Black Silicone.[/s]
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Silicone takes about a week to cure properly. I tried speeding things up with a heater, blower, etc, and got leaks every time. Even Charlie says there's no way to speed it up, but said that when the temperature is over 80 degrees, they take trays of tubes outside to cure.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Drganm, I have a set of 8 inch LC tubes and the one tube i took the bellow from had no rtv on it. its the one dale got the measurments from. If it had RTV he would not have been able to use the cross cut section to get the reveal measurements, that is why i think they should work with no silicone or RTV for FIRST time use. but I will try it when i get home from greece. Sitting out my brothers balcony now typing this.... ahhhh a perfect night in Thessaloniki.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Silicone takes about a week to cure properly. I tried speeding things up with a heater, blower, etc, and got leaks every time. Even Charlie says there's no way to speed it up, but said that when the temperature is over 80 degrees, they take trays of tubes outside to cure. |
that's really good to know, thanks curt
| Nashou66 wrote: | | Drganm, I have a set of 8 inch LC tubes and the one tube i took the bellow from had no rtv on it. its the one dale got the measurments from. If it had RTV he would not have been able to use the cross cut section to get the reveal measurements, that is why i think they should work with no silicone or RTV for FIRST time use. but I will try it when i get home from greece. |
I would be OK with not putting RTV on the C-elenment side but the tube side is just to sketchy with those 15 bolts and steel ring. I simply do not want to do any of these 3 tubes over under any circumstances.
| Nashou66 wrote: | Sitting out my brothers balcony now typing this.... ahhhh a perfect night in Thessaloniki.
Athanasios |
how can you stand to go back to NY city after that? I wish I had bought a summer home in Montenegro before the Russians drove up the prices.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PiDD wrote: | | Quote: | you actually did that with the C-element in place? = Butchery
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Yeah im not a LC guy and didnt know better! |
Thank you for admitting that 
Me too. 
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Dragan, i was going to tell you to try it with no glue or silicon. these are new and I dont think they need it. Used ones do because they were already compressed and the decompression when reusing them is why i think used ones need RTV.it's just my theory. I'll try wehn i get back home. In the Rome Airport now.
Athanasios |
Too late, I siliconed it all together last night. From the factory they are all RTV'd so I just duplicated that. I really don't want to take chances anyway, this is a HUGE PITA to do. Good news is the new boot fit perfectly.
My only concern, unrelated to boot, is I potted the tube and let it sit for 48 hours. The little bit that extruded out on the tube face still had not cured after 48 hours I mean WTF? how can that stuff stay gummy for 2 days. the really wierd part is that the much thicker 1/4" wide bead on the back of the tube hardened completely. Does it have something to do with me leaving the tube face down (standing up) for that period. Could the RTV facing down stayed soft and stuff pointing up cured? I don't get it, it was all from a single cartridge of GE 100% pure Black Silicone.[/s] |
I ran into this problem with a Sony tube last week and the silicone not drying after several days. The stuff that came out of the silicone tube first would not dry, but the stuff that came out later did dry. My father is a Dr. of polymer science and he told me that most likely the silicone was not formulated or mixed properly during production. The bad tube of silicone I have here I got at HomeDepot and is GE Silicone II black. It is batch number 09c088. I do not know if its strength will be as good as properly formulated silicone even if it ever dries.
With Sony tubes, the silicone is very thin and must support the weight of the tube an magnets. I did not want to risk weak silicone, so I wound up removing the silicone after three days and redoing the mount. After three days the stuff was still tacky and could easily be finger printed with a light touch. Silicone should not take this long to dry. It may not be fully cured in three days, but it should be very firm.
To make silicone cure more quickly you can put it in a humid environment. I do not know the chemical reaction myself, but my father explained to me several times that silicone dries by using water that is in the atmosphere. It will actually dry faster in a cool environment that is damp than in a warm environment that is dry. I think he told me that warm and damp is best though for drying time.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | I ran into this problem with a Sony tube last week and the silicone not drying after several days. The stuff that came out of the silicone tube first would not dry, but the stuff that came out later did dry. My father is a Dr. of polymer science and he told me that most likely the silicone was not formulated or mixed properly during production. The bad tube of silicone I have here I got at HomeDepot and is GE Silicone II black. It is batch number 09c088. I do not know if its strength will be as good as properly formulated silicone even if it ever dries. |
ARRRGGHH, God dam it this is the same crap I have here. I have batch number 07E057. I can't believe this is happening, on top of all the problems with LC machines we now have to deal with BAD SILICONE too, un-f*cking-believable:x
| CIR Engineering wrote: | With Sony tubes, the silicone is very thin and must support the weight of the tube an magnets. I did not want to risk weak silicone, so I wound up removing the silicone after three days and redoing the mount. After three days the stuff was still tacky and could easily be finger printed with a light touch. Silicone should not take this long to dry. It may not be fully cured in three days, but it should be very firm.
To make silicone cure more quickly you can put it in a humid environment. I do not know the chemical reaction myself, but my father explained to me several times that silicone dries by using water that is in the atmosphere. It will actually dry faster in a cool environment that is damp than in a warm environment that is dry. I think he told me that warm and damp is best though for drying time.
craigr |
Well with a Marquee the potting is 1/4" to 3/8" wide and about 1 inch deep. The stuff that came out later did cure completely, maybe I will set this tube in the bathroom with the shower. I cannot imagine digging it all out again, especially now that the bellows and C-element are in place.
It sounds like the new silicone mix they're using is bad, they are getting seperation of the compounds inside. Whatever happened to the good old stuff that would stink up the room with Acetic Acid.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Someone please change the thread name to "Marquee LC chambers, the nightmare continues".
| dturco wrote: | | PiDD wrote: | | Quote: | you actually did that with the C-element in place? = Butchery
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Yeah im not a LC guy and didnt know better! |
Thank you for admitting that
Me too. |
it's ok not to know, no one here was bron a CR tech. Remeber that the only stupid question is the one you forgot to ask
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | | I ran into this problem with a Sony tube last week and the silicone not drying after several days. The stuff that came out of the silicone tube first would not dry, but the stuff that came out later did dry. My father is a Dr. of polymer science and he told me that most likely the silicone was not formulated or mixed properly during production. The bad tube of silicone I have here I got at HomeDepot and is GE Silicone II black. It is batch number 09c088. I do not know if its strength will be as good as properly formulated silicone even if it ever dries. |
ARRRGGHH, God dam it this is the same crap I have here. I have batch number 07E057. I can't believe this is happening, on top of all the problems with LC machines we now have to deal with BAD SILICONE too, un-f*cking-believable:x
| CIR Engineering wrote: | With Sony tubes, the silicone is very thin and must support the weight of the tube an magnets. I did not want to risk weak silicone, so I wound up removing the silicone after three days and redoing the mount. After three days the stuff was still tacky and could easily be finger printed with a light touch. Silicone should not take this long to dry. It may not be fully cured in three days, but it should be very firm.
To make silicone cure more quickly you can put it in a humid environment. I do not know the chemical reaction myself, but my father explained to me several times that silicone dries by using water that is in the atmosphere. It will actually dry faster in a cool environment that is damp than in a warm environment that is dry. I think he told me that warm and damp is best though for drying time.
craigr |
Well with a Marquee the potting is 1/4" to 3/8" wide and about 1 inch deep. The stuff that came out later did cure completely, maybe I will set this tube in the bathroom with the shower. I cannot imagine digging it all out again, especially now that the bellows and C-element are in place.
It sounds like the new silicone mix they're using is bad, they are getting seperation of the compounds inside. Whatever happened to the good old stuff that would stink up the room with Acetic Acid. |
I don't think you will have a problem with a Marquee. There is so much silicone in there that even if it is a little soft I find it doubtful that the tube will pop out. I only redid the one here because on a Sony there is just a thin bead holding everything together and if that bead were to breach...
I would not bother digging out your tube again, just watch it for drips for a few days after you reinstall it. Keep the cover off the projector so you can inspect from time to time. I really don't think the tube will just pop out even if the silicone is bad, you will most likely get some warning with leakage first if you even have any problems.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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PiDD
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | it's ok not to know, no one here was bron a CR tech. Remeber that the only stupid question is the one you forgot to ask |
You know I was going through my own tube nightmare ... VIM died one night and I turned off the projector only to spot burn the green tube. I knee jerked and bought a VDC rebuild off ebay only to put it in and realize its a POS .. damn soft pic. I got a new green tube on a friday .. pumped to the ultra sharp tube in I ran to extract it. I followed Curts recipe for disaster (sorry Curt but that procedure is BAD) only to have it blow up. For those that have never experienced this ... its a full diaper experience!! Glass everywhere!
Well I did get a nice green tube after all that and got the VIM repaired with some MP upgrades ... alls well that ends well.
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