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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: Edge enhancement type problem? |
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So here is another problem that has surfaced on my nec 6pg xtra.
There is (or looks to be) something like an edge enhancement problem. Not sure what else you would call it.
There is a slight shadow to the right of everything. It happens on all 3 tubes.
When I put up bars, you can see the bars are not solid. They seem to go from light to dark.
This problem shows up using the ps3 and hd-dvd xa2. There is also a vp50 and pioneer avr in the video path. We removed the vp50 and avr and ran stright from the ps3 and xa2 but still had the same result.
Any ideas?
wallace
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haulin79
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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I see the "edge enhancement/sharpness" effect on both sides of the edges. Interesting.
Sorry, I have no other insights.
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Any possibilties this is related to the heat issues I mentioned in the other thread?
wallace
EDIT: Never mind. Problem is there HOT or cold.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| wallace123456 wrote: | Any possibilties this is related to the heat issues I mentioned in the other thread?
wallace
EDIT: Never mind. Problem is there HOT or cold. |
Doesn't matter now Don since the excessive heat may have started to deteriorate the STK chips, it might be the cause of what your seeing ... but I'm not an expert here.
I think Chip mentioned to see if the chips are the problem by pressing on them while the PJ is running and looking on the screen for any affects, if there is some movement or anomaly, the chips should be replaced.
Athanasios
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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The ghosting on the test pattern is fairly clear, but I think that the ramp bar stuff is an optical illusion.
Cover the transitions and the smooth grayscale on the outside and it goes away. You can check the pixel values too.
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | The ghosting on the test pattern is fairly clear, but I think that the ramp bar stuff is an optical illusion.
Cover the transitions and the smooth grayscale on the outside and it goes away. You can check the pixel values too. |
I see what you are saying. But my understanding was the bars should be a solid bar with no transition.
Anyhow, I'm going to try the idea Chip had and see if any changes.
wallace
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Ok, maybe I'm not going to check the STK chips. 
Well, I am not sure how anyone else checked the STK chips (while the pj is running) on the base plate, but there aint no way that I could see. I could see 4, but there is only a slight chance I could reach 1 of them. And, I could only maybe touch about half the pins on that.
The only other STK chips are on the deflection board and those are mounted to the big black heat sink. Those run cool.
Still checking and reseating all connectors and boards.
Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.
wallace
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: |
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All projectors have some shadowing (well, all that I have seen).
But if it's bad, it's usually the RGBHV cable.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think this is an STK problem. If you have a problem with an STK you will have geometry or possibly focus issues, not ringing. I am with Mark on this one... probably a bad cable, a cable with too little bandwidth, or a bad terminator on the cable. Also, are you using RGBHV analog, or are you using a DVI/HDMI input box or card? This could easily be an HDMI/DVI to RGB converter issue.
I don't see the problem in the gray steps patter either... only on the overscan pattern.
What frequency are you running? If this is 1080p 60Hz, try stepping down to 1080i 60Hz and see if the problem goes away. !080p 60Hz is really pushing an NEC.
Also, to push on the STK's use a wooden dowel rod. Don't stick your hand or anything conductive in there... you will probably die.
craigr
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | I don't think this is an STK problem. If you have a problem with an STK you will have geometry or possibly focus issues, not ringing. I am with Mark on this one... probably a bad cable, a cable with too little bandwidth, or a bad terminator on the cable. Also, are you using RGBHV analog, or are you using a DVI/HDMI input box or card? This could easily be an HDMI/DVI to RGB converter issue.
I don't see the problem in the gray steps patter either... only on the overscan pattern.
What frequency are you running? If this is 1080p 60Hz, try stepping down to 1080i 60Hz and see if the problem goes away. !080p 60Hz is really pushing an NEC.
Also, to push on the STK's use a wooden dowel rod. Don't stick your hand or anything conductive in there... you will probably die.
craigr |
Good call from Mark and Craig on the bad cable (RGBHV)! Or at least dirty connections. 
I am so fricking embarrassed at this point...........
I have not had the chance to mess around with the pj for a few days. So, tonight, I start swapping some on the leads between the moome ext box and the pj (RGBHV). I swap the H and V leads; no change still ghosting or edge enahcement issue.
I then look again real close at patterns and see that the Red and Green has the biggest problems. The Blue looks "ok". So, I swap the red and green and BAM! In focus!!! I take the cable off and clean the connectors and hook everything back up.
WOW!!! Back in business!  
Now, I need to go back and check to make sure there is not a problem with the moome box solder points and maybe upgrade the RGBVH cable.
Again, I can't beleive I did not check those connections prior to posting about this................ 
Granted, not everything is in the best shape as far as focus and stuff goes, but thats because I have been adjusting stuff with the bad/dirty cables.
wallace
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: |
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What res is that Xtra running?
It looks really good.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | What res is that Xtra running?
It looks really good. |
Dito, and same question.
Don't feel bad about overlooking bad connections. It is easy to forget the simple things sometimes... we all do it. Just think of the "troubleshooting" section of any user manual for any piece of electronics. "The DVD player does not turn on." "Make sure the player is plugged into the wall socket."
I once spent two hours trying to trouble shoot a component video issue on a CRT where green was ringing. I tore the set apart and it wound up being a bad cable.
craigr
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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The sources (xa-2 and ps-3) output 1080p 60 or 72 hz depending on material. The vp50 scales down to 720p 60 or 72 hz.
I went ahead and purchased some new rgbhv cables from bluejeanscables. But, I also need to take a look inside the moome box to make sure there are no bad solder joints in there.
Also need to take a look at the bars again and see what they look like now.
Again, thanks Craig and Mark; good call!!
wallace
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ah 720p.
I was kinda afraid you were going to say 1080p 60hz. That would make me feel inadequate...I've never got an NEC looking that good on 1080p. 
The PS3 outputs 72hz? Umm..
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Ah 720p.
I was kinda afraid you were going to say 1080p 60hz. That would make me feel inadequate...I've never got an NEC looking that good on 1080p.
The PS3 outputs 72hz? Umm.. |
Oooppppsss. I meant to say, 24hz....
wallace
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