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Willie
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 169
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | yeah right, NO ONE is wrose than those brown shirted moron's. I have shipped dozens of tubes with fed ex and never damaged a single one. A lot of them were packed exactly like the box in mikes pic. whic is factory packing from Matsushita. It's dosen't matter how well you pack it, if they crush the f*ck*** box I promise you the tube neck will crack.  |
For every guy who swears that UPS are morons there is a guy somewhere swearing about FedEx, I guarantee it. You have been lucky with FedEx. That is it. No more. No less. I am not sayin' jump to UPS. I am just saying what is real. You have been lucky. This time Mike was not.
Willie
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Mike et al.
since that packaging was manufacturer's original, you have the best argument moving forward. but, and this is the sad part, that packaging was designed in the days when shippers actually cared about getting ALL the packages to the receiver in good shape, not just enough of them to maintain profit levels after settlements.
those days are gone and it sucks. it's like trying to ask a stock-droid in your hardware store how to fix a problem. they either don't know more than how to stock shelves, or they have a pat official answer that they've been taught to recite, even if it isn't the best solution, the only solution, or the solution that the customer can use.
sigh.
it's all about bottom line to the exclusion of providing the service that you are supposed to be giving the customers. i see it everywhere, in all aspects of life and it's really depressing.
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Looks like the packaging was about as good as it gets.
Seeing a broken brand new tube is like seeing a nice car wrecked.
wallace
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I'm sure this won't be popular, but I'm going to throw out a slightly different point of view...
We all know how these packages get handled. We know about the rough handling and the relative potential for damage... We can whine and bitch all we want about the rough handling and losses, but to me, given what we know, in the end, the responsibility is on us to pack this stuff to survive the abuse (within reason, of course.) I'm not saying they're not responsible or that they shouldn't replace the tube - they are and they should - but, it's ultimately us that pack this stuff for transit. Yes, it would be nice if UPS and FedEx were more careful, but as docadillac mentioned, these people handle millions of packages per day and we know this sh*t happens... Frankly, it shouldn't surprise somebody when something that's the perfect (worst) combination of both fragile AND heavy gets broken. I'm surprised it doesn't happen a lot more often, actually.
I know Mike and Curt and the others that ship tubes all the time know their stuff... And, maybe that package is standard issue for shipping tubes, but it looks woefully inadequate to me. A container I bought some 07msp's in was WAY nicer than that. The problem I see is that you've got this wickedly heavy end in the bell/face/mounting hardware all attached to a very light/easy to break glass neck end, and the whole thing is support only at each end. If that box gets knocked around much, all the inertial force from that heavy bell-end gets transferred right into the neck. From what I can see of the box, it doesn't even look like it took much of a hit or fall.
I know how I'd pack an expensive, fragile, and heavy tube with mounting hardware, and it would NOT be like that.
Again, maybe that packing is standard issue, and maybe losses don't occur much, but if so, I'm honestly surprised.
SC |
Agreed.
I shipped a tube "surface" to New Zealand. Anyone unfamiliar with "surface" via the post office to overseas, what it means is they throw it on a truck, drive it to port, throw it on a ship, fill the ship, sail it, throw it on more trucks when it gets into port, and eventually, it arrives at its destination.
It is the worst possible way to ship anything, as it gets man handled dozens of times. But the buyer wanted it cheap, not fast. I packed it so I could drop it from shoulder height without it breaking, THEN boxed it, then packed the box, then boxed THAT box.
Six months later it showed up, the outer box beat to hell, but the tube in perfect condition...
Pack for the shipping method or pay for the better method.
| mp20748 wrote: | to show what you'll see when you open an 9" LC tube assembly from VDC.
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Having dealt with VDC, how THEY pack things doesn't lend a lot of confidence ....I'm surprised they'd even use ANY packing material...
Best factory packing method is Barco, tube mounting bolted to two pieces of plywood which are then the basis for the packaging. The plywood extends the entire length of the tube so the packing doesn't even actually touch the glass of the tube, so no pressure is transferred to it...
BUT, for sure, UPS, or any courier, has a responsibility to treat all packages with respect, of course.
Last edited by Elaine Benes on Thu May 07, 2009 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Thats very severe damage. MP has used standard factory packing and no doubt the factory shifts tubes all around the world and that packaging is satisfactory. There is a responsiblity to pack properly but that has been met by MP. There is also a responsiblity by the courier company to take care and clearly they have not. I have had tubes shipped to me in those very same boxes with the magnetics still attached and they have arrived OK even though the boxes looked like they had bounced around. They must have really given that package something to do that sort of damage.
Its not reasonable to not get what you pay for especially from UPS or any other transport company.
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tommo2
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2jprT8fLg
The action starts at around 30 seconds
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well that sucks Mike. I would guess these people can't read but it's more like they don't give a sh!t.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Willie wrote: | I am just saying what is real. You have been lucky. This time Mike was not.
Willie |
well if avoiding United Package Smashers is luck then yes, I've been lucky. 
Hmmm, every time someone makes fun of a shipping company the guy is always wearing a Brown shirt, never an Orange/Purple shirt. Wonder why that is? 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 9" tube box from barco. it's practically bulletproof. heavy doublewalled cardboard with foam rubber end packing, strong corner gussets, with the tube inside bubblewrap inside another heavy cardboard sleeve. I guess they don't want any problems.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Willie wrote: | | For every guy who swears that UPS are morons there is a guy somewhere swearing about FedEx, I guarantee it. You have been lucky with FedEx. That is it. No more. No less. I am not sayin' jump to UPS. I am just saying what is real. You have been lucky. This time Mike was not. |
I'm no volume shipper by any means - probably just 50 or 60 items in the last couple of years... I use FedEx or FedEx Ground almost exclusively, and I haven't had a single lost or damaged item. That includes plenty of fragile items like cameras and electronics. Call it luck if you want, but I also work really hard to make sure I pack my items right, and pack them well.
You wanna talk about lucky... If VDC sends out all their tubes in the package that Mike has the pictures of, then IMHO, it's just plain lucky they don't have damage on a BUNCH of their shipped tubes. The foam insert should be designed so that the neck doesn't ever see the combined weight of the entire tube and mounting hardware... As it is, if that box takes much of a fall and lands neck-down, all the inertial force of the entire tube and hardware is all concentrated on that light glass neck.
If I were shipping $2000 tube assemblies, I'd probably use foam-in-place. Done right, you could drop a tube from a dock or the back of a trailer without incident. The way those tubes in the photos are packed, I'd be afraid to let it fall from the dining room table. And there's the take-away: If you'd be nervous taking your item the way you packed it and dropping it from your waist onto the living room carpet, it isn't packed well enough.
SC
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Willie
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 169
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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My point was that whether it is FedEx or UPS the outcome is for all practical purposes the same.
I must admit I am somewhat cynical about shipping after spending 17 years in the business; however, you make a good point - it is more about care in packaging than luck.
I tire of UPS bashing. My company moves north of 60,000 packages a year with UPS for our customer base. The last time we processed a damage claim was January.
Willie
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RobertMfromLI
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Location: West Islip, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | docadillac wrote: | | Stuff gets dropped, thrown and kicked as it moves around. UPS does not pay the recipient for a claim but the shipper. |
dropped and kicked? That box was CRUSHED in the middle
| Willie wrote: | | Statistically FedEx is a tad worse than UPS.Willie |
yeah right, NO ONE is wrose than those brown shirted moron's. I have shipped dozens of tubes with fed ex and never damaged a single one. A lot of them were packed exactly like the box in mikes pic. whic is factory packing from Matsushita. It's dosen't matter how well you pack it, if they crush the f*ck*** box I promise you the tube neck will crack. |
I thoroughly hate FedEx for anything either heavy or fragile. I had a Netfinity server shipped to me via FedEx (it's around 150lbs). The guy opened the back of the truck, but the hand cart on the floor, slid the server to the edge, climbed out of the truck, and dropped the server onto the ground...
...then claimed he didnt do it. Then would not let me file a damage claim for the crushed box (and possibly crushed server). He told me I had to file it on the phone or online, and that I could not do it with him. That, by the way, is a lie (unless they just changed things recently). A claim must be filed with the driver or they do not honor it. He still insisted on a signature... so I signed it "box dropped and damaged by driver"
Fortunately, the Netfinity servers can take a beating, and all but a cable management bracket was fine - the cable bracket was bent a little - but nothing unfixable by simply un-bending it. Server's been running for a year and a half now with no issues.
But... years before, I shipped 15 color laser printers... well packaged... of the first 12, one made it intact. Of the rest, they all did - but that was after I started putting (multiple on each box) labels saying "WARNING: THIS PACKAGING WAS BRAND NEW WHEN THIS ITEM WAS SHIPPED: IF PACKAGING IS DAMAGED, DO NOT ACCEPT AND FILE A CLAIM WITH THE DRIVER IMMEDIATELY. THIS MEANS FEDEX HAS DAMAGED THIS UNIT. YOU MUST FILE A CLAIM WITH THE DRIVER BEFORE HE LEAVES" - along with all the other warning labels (fragile, handle with care, etc) that were on the original 12 shipped. Suddenly, those packages made it in virtually pristine condition... coincidence? Possibly. Sadly, I lost a fortune on all but one of the damaged units because only one person filed a claim with the driver - the rest tried after the fact and FedEx would not accept or process their claim.
Oh, those labels were 8.5"x11" each and in color.
Anyway, building wood boxes for stuff shouldn't be too hard. A piece of luan or other cheap plywood, and a few 1"x1" pieces cut to size are relatively inexpensive, and easy to assemble into a box that you then package inside a cardboard one.
And that folks, is part of the reason some shippers charge a lot for "shipping" of certain things... covers the cost (and sometimes time) of packaging something FedEx proof.
-Rob
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RobertMfromLI
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Location: West Islip, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Just one note... as others say, fragile things should really be packed with great care. These packages get bounced around in aircraft cross-country (or farther) - so even with no human intervention, the risk for damage exists if not packed well.
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