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Bucketfoot
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Centennial, CO
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the elves at Helm was a complete waste and that the Theoden scene was a very positive addition..
Personally my biggest peeve is probably the character of Aragorn. In the movie he was portrayed as someone who was afraid of who he was and had no interest in being a leader. This is the complete opposite of the real character. I also did not like the handling of Narsil/Anduril, although it really did not have a big impact on the story.
I just try to treat the books and movies as entirely different stories, this keeps me from being too bothered by all the unnecessary changes.
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I've never read the books. I did enjoy the movies but not the theatrical releases the extended editions.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: |
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I read the books about once a year, have done since I was 12.
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | I want to retract one thing I said about the changes to the movie from the book. Not all the changes were bad by any means, and there were some things that were changed and were a big improvement to the story line over how the book was written. Tolkien was brilliant but he wasn't perfect and he re-wrote hiw own books many times. I can't say which changes were JAckson and which were Fran Walsh but I have a feeling she is responsible for the good ones. Not sure why but listening to her interview in the extended edition's she just comes across as highly intelligent and insightful.
For instance, Elves arrive at Helm's deep to help the humans. This is absolute rubbish and was NOT needed, it's got Jackson wirtten all over it. However there is a very powerful scene in the second movie (extended edition) that deals with Theoden King of Rohan, and his grieving for his son Theodred. In the book this is hardly mentioned, but in the movie there are very emotional scenes with Theodred's death at the Ford's of Isen and Theoden's grieving at his funeral at Meduseld. I have a Feeling Fran pushed for this part.
now that I'm more familiar with the movies, I'll have to go back and watch the making of portions again. |
I also like that they removed the useless songs and Tom Bombadil... HATED those parts of the books. Include songs if you must, but give me the f'n music!!! Every song I came accross I tried to find a tune to. USELESS! Don't get me started on Bombadil (drunk and tired, don't care about spelling at this time). That guy was the first fantacy druck user. 
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loribates
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Location: KS
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | I read the books about once a year, have done since I was 12. |
Me too. Love the movies, while I don't agree with some of the handling of the story lines in the movie as compared to the book, particularly Aragorn as others have mentioned.... I can't watch the regular editions anymore. I have the extended edition set and every now and then my kids and I will start on a friday evening and do a full marathon all night long.
I never get tired of watching the movies. I have also read the Hobbit, Histories of Middle Earth, the Silmarillion, The Children of Hurin and the Unfinished Tales a zillion times. I'm currently halfway through the Return of the King again.
I still, after reading the books and watching the movies so many times, pick out things in the movie that touch on the even older histories. It's a shame to have watched the movies and not understand the story of Beren and Luthien, or to know the bloodlines of Elrond, the history of Galdriel, who the Eldar were, to understand what Aragorn means when he says "Men of the West", what a balrog really is, to know that Sauron was just a flunky to the original bad boy Melkor etc. Having read all the books really adds so much to the little glimpses of those things you see in the movie, like the Light of Earendil, the Noldorin knives (the hobbits acquired while trapped in barrow, not given by Galadriel), how Dwarves came to be, the history behind the Ring of Barahir worn by Aragorn. Wow, I could go on and on.....
I've been waiting for a long time to get hi-def versions of these!!! YIPEE.
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Ridebreck
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
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I would still love to give Jackson a solid kick to the twins for leaving out the raising of the Shire. I've gotten over the Aragorn stuff, but every time I watch ROTK, it just bothers me. They could have left out all of the Arwen cut scenes and probably made room for the hobbits' return to the Shire. It's almost like they said "ok, we're almost out of time...let's end this as quickly as possible". To me, the hobbits returning to the Shire wrapped up the whole trilogy of books and was a great example of how each one had grown and changed in their own way. Instead, we get a few seconds on them on horseback getting the stink eye from that old Proudfoot guy, a few seconds at the bar, a wedding shot, and then off to the boats.
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loribates
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Location: KS
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Well, they sort of screwed themselves on that when they killed off Saruman and Wormtongue so early. I agree with you though.
Off to bed for me to finish this chapter. Faramir has an awful fever and Denethor just went bat chit.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: | I havent seen a single frame of any of them....
Tolkien is overrated!
And rumor has it he smelled bad! |
Wow you kidding right. While I am no die hard fan of this it was damned good. |
Kidding about him smelling bad... i dont know.
Not kidding about the books. I'm a huge SF/ Fantasy/ Action/ History book guy. I have tried at least 3 times to read Tolkien.
It bores me to tears. I havent seen any of the films... and have no desire to. 
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ridebreck wrote: | | I would still love to give Jackson a solid kick to the twins for leaving out the raising of the Shire. |
In his defense, though, you know it would never have flown in a movie. Not in a million years - the audience would be saying, phew, the bad guy is defeated, it's all over... and wham! Wait, WTF?!
It never would have happened, even if Jackson had wanted it to. There isn't a money man in Hollywood who would have let it through - kind of like Bombadil. It would have been sheer lunacy.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I am still astonished that ANY money man bankrolled the LOTR trilogy. I mean here you have a story franchise that is revered by millions of fans, so you CAN'T do it "right." So you go pick an almost-no-name director with a couple of slasher films and other forgettables on his resume, and turn him loose with a $270M budget for THREE films!? It's utter insanity!! I can't believe anybody greenlighted it. Damn lucky for everyone that they did, but it's still amazing that it ever happened.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | I am still astonished that ANY money man bankrolled the LOTR trilogy. I mean here you have a story franchise that is revered by millions of fans, so you CAN'T do it "right." So you go pick an almost-no-name director with a couple of slasher films and other forgettables on his resume, and turn him loose with a $270M budget for THREE films!? It's utter insanity!! I can't believe anybody greenlighted it. Damn lucky for everyone that they did, but it's still amazing that it ever happened. |
Barrie Ozbourne.
A long time Hollywood producer, has ties to the Weinstein Bro's @ New Line. He produced a lot of movies and was the early producer of the Matrix.
From what i heard Peter Jackson did an AMAZING storyboard and animated presentation for the producers.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | I am still astonished that ANY money man bankrolled the LOTR trilogy. I mean here you have a story franchise that is revered by millions of fans, so you CAN'T do it "right." So you go pick an almost-no-name director with a couple of slasher films and other forgettables on his resume, and turn him loose with a $270M budget for THREE films!? It's utter insanity!! I can't believe anybody greenlighted it. Damn lucky for everyone that they did, but it's still amazing that it ever happened. |
Almost-no-name director?
Maybe on your side of the pacific.
He's pretty famous here...even though he is a damn Kiwi 
I didn't like Meet the Feebles though.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Somebody whose credits included only Bad Taste, Braindead, Meet the Feebles, the Frighteners, etc is normally not the first choice for a $270M budget. Heavenly Creatures is the only film he did that came anywhere near mainstream success. I'd say he was near enough to "almost-no-name," certainly "almost-no-resume," for a project of that magnitude! In a film industry that normally refuses to make a movie unless they've got guaranteed-bankable Movie Star names in the leads, turning someone like Jackson loose on a project like LOTR is unheard-of.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | In a film industry that normally refuses to make a movie unless they've got guaranteed-bankable Movie Star names in the leads, turning someone like Jackson loose on a project like LOTR is unheard-of. |
it is pretty amazing and over all JAckson did a great job. He was obviously the driving force behind getting the money and investors on board so I guess you have to excuse the parts he screwed around with for no apparent reason..
It's mind boggling to think it was a 5 year project for the actors as well. Can you imagine telling your wife/family " hey Honey I'm going to make a movie, I'll see you in 2014" 
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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No, the filming only took about 15 months, so the actors weren't involved all that long. The rest of it was post-production &etc, which is more of a "normal" non-location job.
Yes, Jackson did an astonishingly good job. My wife's only complaint was that the elves weren't wondrous and beautiful enough.  But the orcs were more than ugly enough.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Not all the changes were bad by any means, and there were some things that were changed and were a big improvement to the story line over how the book was written. Tolkien was brilliant but he wasn't perfect and he re-wrote hiw own books many times. |
Which is why the book endings were so disjoint. Tolkien originally wrote them as 1 book, and the money grubbing publicists broke them up against his wishes. Some changes, like Boremier's death in the end of the first rather than the cliff hanger ending the book had, as well as Shelob being moved to the 3rd movie made a lot more sense, especially from a movie's stand point. But that's the big problem; you can do so much more with a book than a movie, they can be very hard to adapt without using a ton of artistic licensing.
| draganm wrote: | | For instance, Elves arrive at Helm's deep to help the humans. This is absolute rubbish and was NOT needed, it's got Jackson wirtten all over it. |
Very true, but in today with anti-racism messages all over the place; it was a nice touch that made sense. I have a feeling someone in HR came up with that one.
Now, the big problem I had was the elf that died(I don't recall him in the books) that caused Aragorn to put on his superman cape and go on a ruthless orc killing spree without a scratch on him. A good movie suspends disbelief. While watching Gandalf and Saruman go head to head with magic, I never once said, "Damn, that couldn't happen." Not the case in that segment. Of course, 12+ hours of movies and that was the only thing that really stuck out in my mind; they did a good job.
Most of the extended stuff I liked, save for Isildur putting the ring on in the intro. Granted, we all knew what the ring did, but it takes away the climax of Bilbo disappearing.
My big complaint: No hobbit's kicking Saruman's ass. I was happy watching the theatrical versions that Saruman didn't die. I figured it was left like that for the extended version. I can see leaving it out of the theatrical, but how the hell can you leave that out of the extended version?
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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This is an interesting link from a few years ago where a guy recorded the 1080i versions off of cable and did a comparison. Pictures shown are 480p, mouse over for a 1080i segment of about the same time frame. They are a bit sharper. The big thing is the vast depth increase w/ contrast and color. WOW!!!!!
http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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It's amazing how even downsampled to SD-DVD levels, the HD signal is still significantly sharper !?
I'm not seeing the contrast/color improvements but that may be because I'm on an LCD laptop in a bright room. The HD scenes just look darker.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | It's amazing how even downsampled to SD-DVD levels, the HD signal is still significantly sharper !?
I'm not seeing the contrast/color improvements but that may be because I'm on an LCD laptop in a bright room. The HD scenes just look darker. |
I think the second picture shows it the most. The sky looks blue instead of some blue tinted white, and the grass is a vivid green, vs. a sickly green.
Funny, I forgot about the down sampling when I pulled it up. A good focusing point is the leaf in front of Pippin in shot 4. You can see the veins much clearer, and instead of some muddied white, it looks yellow. Very cool.
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Ridebreck
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Ridebreck wrote: | | I would still love to give Jackson a solid kick to the twins for leaving out the raising of the Shire. |
In his defense, though, you know it would never have flown in a movie. Not in a million years - the audience would be saying, phew, the bad guy is defeated, it's all over... and wham! Wait, WTF?!
It never would have happened, even if Jackson had wanted it to. There isn't a money man in Hollywood who would have let it through - kind of like Bombadil. It would have been sheer lunacy. |
Perhaps, but then again, there's alot about Hollywood that deserves multiple shots to the nuts. I seem to recall an interview with Jackson where he stated that he just didn't think that part of books lent much to the overall story - yet evidently the four hobbits grabbing a post-save-the-world brew did.
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