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freak1
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: numerous sources to projector, scaler needed? |
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Hi,
my very first topic on this forum 
in short;
I'm new to all this CRT projecting stuff. I saw this projector in action, and was hooked. I'm currently in the process of moving to my new home which will have a dedictated HT room (with which I will bug you guys with more questions).
at this point, I'm stocking up on stuff.
Right now I've got:
Sony 1292 CRT Projector with zero wear. HD10L lenses.
Moome IFB-Fullhd add-on card.
Sony str-3400es receiver.
just to check on my theory;
I want to attach the following devices:
Xbox 360, PS3, WII, Xbox 1.
some of them are capable of sending out 1080P at 60 hertz, some of them aren't.
can I just use the receiver to scale up to 1080P or is it advisable to use a scaler?
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I would simply use the receiver. A video processor/scaler is nice if you need other features that it has but today it's basically not needed unless you have a specific reason to use one (ie: you know why you want one).
Yes, some scalers will do a much better job at scaling that a low end receiver (I don't know the quality of your receiver), but really, who cares? Only the lowest low-end sources need scaling anyway. In your case that's the Xbox 1, and Wii. Who cares if it's not 100% "perfect"? You're going to use the PS3 for Blu-ray and DVD playback, the Xbox360 for HD DVD (and possibly DVD) playback... as well as the games of course.
Even if you had a "high end" DVD player. Is it worth a high end scaler? Nope, not in my books because even the BEST dvd will look like crap compared to a mediocre Blu-ray disc. Why spend a lot of money on an excellent scaler for low-end DVD? To use an analogy, that would be like using $10,000 worth of amps to play back AM radio. What's the point? A $500 amp playing FM radio or CD will sound 10x better because on the AM radio setup you're completely limited by the low end source.
Kal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: numerous sources to projector, scaler needed? |
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| freak1 wrote: | | Sony 1292 CRT Projector with zero wear. HD10L lenses. |
Are you sure those are the lenses on it? If so you will need to replace them for a home theatre size screen.
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freak1
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: numerous sources to projector, scaler needed? |
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| draganm wrote: | | freak1 wrote: | | Sony 1292 CRT Projector with zero wear. HD10L lenses. |
Are you sure those are the lenses on it? If so you will need to replace them for a home theatre size screen. |
hmm, you're making me doubt myself..
will check tomorrow!
@Kal; Thanks!
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Yes, some scalers will do a much better job at scaling that a low end receiver (I don't know the quality of your receiver), but really, who cares? Only the lowest low-end sources need scaling anyway. In your case that's the Xbox 1, and Wii. Who cares if it's not 100% "perfect"? You're going to use the PS3 for Blu-ray and DVD playback, the Xbox360 for HD DVD (and possibly DVD) playback... as well as the games of course.
Even if you had a "high end" DVD player. Is it worth a high end scaler? Nope, not in my books because even the BEST dvd will look like crap compared to a mediocre Blu-ray disc. Why spend a lot of money on an excellent scaler for low-end DVD? To use an analogy, that would be like using $10,000 worth of amps to play back AM radio. What's the point? A $500 amp playing FM radio or CD will sound 10x better because on the AM radio setup you're completely limited by the low end source. |
I have two counter points to this:
1. If you have a considerable collection of existing DVD content that you aren't getting rid of anytime soon then a good scalar will let you maximize the experience and longevity of that content for your big screen.
2. CRTs aren't fixed pixel devices, so a good scalar that lets you output custom resolutions will let you do interesting setups that maximize the abilities of your projector.
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Ridebreck
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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The PS3 does a pretty good job of upscaling DVDs, IMO. It's a bit of a pain to use, but I've had no complaints as far as the image quality that it puts out.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| schmoe wrote: | | 1. If you have a considerable collection of existing DVD content that you aren't getting rid of anytime soon then a good scalar will let you maximize the experience and longevity of that content for your big screen. |
My point was that something like an average Blu-ray player or DVD player already has an 'adequate' scaler built in for the $200-300 cost. A $1000+ scaler may do a slightly better job but it's not a huge difference.
If I had to rate it on a scale from 0 to 100 where 100 is the best:
0 = the crappiest picture possible (VHS with a dirty head playing a tape that's been watched 10,000 times)
50 = DVD played on an 'average' DVD or Blu-ray player with upscaling built in
55 = DVD played on an 'average' DVD or Blu-ray player with an external $1000+ scaler
100 = Blu-ray played on an 'average' Blu-ray player
If someone already has a good external scaler that's better than most internal player scalers then by all means continue to use it. But the original poster here doesn't have a scaler so I don't think it would make sense for him to spend a lot of money on an external scaler instead of using the one he already has in his receiver (and likely in his players too). The difference in quality is (IMHO) a negligeable jump in performance such that most people won't care or notice.
Kal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I understand where your coming from kal but some PJ's need a scaler for custom porch settings to get the full width of Blu ray. The marquee needs this to avoid ringing, some barcos need it to fit the image correctly, not sure about the Sony 1292 but it may have some issues as well and if you hate judder of 60hz you need to scale it to a multiple of 24 and a VP is the only game in town for that.
Athanasios
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | I understand where your coming from kal but some PJ's need a scaler for custom porch settings to get the full width of Blu ray. The marquee needs this to avoid ringing, some barcos need it to fit the image correctly, not sure about the Sony 1292 but it may have some issues as well and if you hate judder of 60hz you need to scale it to a multiple of 24 and a VP is the only game in town for that. |
Agreed on all fronts. That's why my original response said:
"... A video processor/scaler is nice if you need other features that it has but today it's basically not needed unless you have a specific reason to use one (ie: you know why you want one)."
They're more or less speciality purpose devices today. The average person won't need to buy one.
Kal
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Good point Nashou. Can't believe I forgot to mention that one since I've been having my own challenges with ringing and porch settings lately.
We've all made valid points here. To summarize - purely from the standpoint of "good scaling" you're probably fine with what you have currently, especially if you're just getting started. If you find that you're a very demanding viewer and can point out issues with the scaling in your receiver, then that is your clue it's time to think about investing in a more expensive solution (or transitioning as much as possible to BluRay). Or if you want to squeeze the maximum performance out of your pj by using custom resolutions depending on the content, then you'll want to consider a video processor.
That said, you may find that a scalar/video-processor is needed anyway because of any number of other issues, along the lines of what Nashou mentioned.
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | The average person won't need to buy one. |
Sorry to keep picking on this, but I'm not sure what you mean by "average" here. From my very limited experience with my Marquee, I simply cannot do 1080p without some kind of deal-breaking issue (either the image is cut off on the left or I have ugly ringing on the left) unless there's a vp in the chain. And from what I've read, this is par for the course for Marquees. This site likes to make it seem that CRTs and 1080p are as easy as "plug and play" and I was very frustrated to find out that isn't the case. I *might* have not gone CRT if I had known this up front, simply because of the added expense of the vp. Given that Marquee's tend to make up a good chunk of the overall user base of pj owners, I don't see how the "average" user won't feel they absolutely need one.
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