| Do you have a White ceiling |
| No, I am dtermined to get the most performance I can from my HT |
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54% |
[ 34 ] |
| Yes, but I plan to get rid of it as soon as my living conditions allow |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes my ceilign is white and so what, pic looks OK to me? |
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22% |
[ 14 ] |
| My wife beats me |
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9% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 62 |
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Life sucks when you nothing to worry about but other peoples ceilings. Many here don't have the space or luxury of a designated theater. I'm sure many wives here would put up a major stink about painting the living room coal black top to bottom. Heck, my wife is complaining about the black wall behind my screen.
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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Number of CRT home theatre's with White ceilings? |
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| draganm wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | It only affects ANSI cr not on/off cr. While I agree that it will hurt the potential, how much is actually needed with a poor ANSI cr? |
In theory yes, but in reality most theatres have some light leaking in. Even a few Blue lights in my equipment rack will wash out the screen if I don't hide them. I recently plugged in a 3 x 1 HDMI switcher, the one they sell on this forum, the amount of light this thing can potentially put on your screen is amazing.
A Black wall will absorb all light (every color) that hits it, and a white wall will reflect all light (every color). So in practice, a Black or Dark wall will help with ON/off as we all as ANSI. Since ANSI is not very good on a CRT this is one thing all CRT guys should be aiming to improve anyway.
My wife painted the living room while I was gone (not the HT), it went from a light beige to a Cappuccino brown. No question the room is darker now at all times of the day. It's not only candles that will refelct from a White ceiling either , light from any source will be absorbed or reflected by dark walls and ceilings. When this happens, the screen will appear to pop out from the screen wall and look a lot brighter as well. |
So you are saying that black walls will help with reflected light from equipment and whatever other light leaking in. You are probably correct, but it would be easier to just eliminate the light leakage.
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Also, I believe Guy Kuo said from his testing that the rear wall was more important. |
He said a lot of smart things but this isn't one of them. How can the back wall which is 20 to 30 feet away, have the biggest effect? The biggest effect is the walls your eyes are trained on. This would be the screen wall and ceiling, followed closely by the floor and side walls. |
I probably should have fleshed that comment out a little more. I would have to go back on AVS and find the thread, but I believe it was the rear wall as he tested everything. No offense, but Guy actually tested this with equipment. If I remember correctly, he put black velvet on the rear wall, side walls, floor and ceiling and measured the effect of each both before and after. Obviously the bigger the room, the less the rear wall will matter. If it is 100 feet away, then reflections will probably be mitigated.
Honestly, there are a lot of variables. The first is the screen and your pj placement. A floor mounted pj with a High Power isn't going to be affected as much by a white ceiling as a floor pj and a unity screen. For most people with a ceiling mount, the floor would probably be the most important. The light is directed in a more downward angle even though this is also mitigated some by unity screens where the gain is more constant across broader angles. Most people don't think about the floor, because they usually have carpet which probably does an adequate job on light reflection.
If I had dedicated home theater and didn't want to do all black (ask Curt what Darin's room looks like), then dark colors in low gloss would probably be adequate. Even black paint reflects light, so it isn't a panacea. For those like Mr. Green with a living room theater, you could do a shadow box type implementation. Surrounding the screen with black velvet coming out two feet or so would probably be just as good as painting the walls a dark color.
For more info, read Darin's article:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/169-understanding-contrast-ratios-in-video-display-devices.html?start=1
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
Kal |
Those are some darn sexy speakers! What brand/model are they? Expensive as heck I'm afraid?
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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They look like Paradigm Signature S8s at $6k a pop. I am guessing Kal didn't pay that, though. Once you get over $5k for a pair of speakers, improvements are very small. Some would say they actually go down.
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grogthegreat
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I just finished setting up my projector in the garage (no basements in FL). I plan on blacking out the walls and ceiling ASAP. I already have the black carpet. Other than blacking out the walls and ceiling, I just need to wait for my Luxman amp to arrive so I can use my Magnepans.
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_________________
First projector: Sony 1252q with 3500 hours
Second projector: NEC 9PG+
current projector: Sony G90
100" 3:4 draper screen.
I must keep upgrading till the voices stop!!
"I CAN HAZ CRT PRUJEKTER."
-Curt Palme
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | | draganm wrote: | dammit, every time Kal posts pics of his HT I feel like ripping mine out and starting over from scratch.
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I always enjoy the product photography and lighting. Looks like you were rockin' the 10-22. |
Yup! I bought that wide angle lens to play around at holidays but it's also fantastic for room shots as long you don't mind the distortion from going so wide. It does really weird things to people's faces too if you don't keep them in the middle of the frame.
Completely off topic, but here are some of the first pictures with this Canon 10-22 EF-S lens from last summer:
You can take some semi-normal looking shots too as long as you keep the people in the middle of the frame:
It does great stuff to exaggerate perspective:
This climbing wall's only about 5 feet off the ground:
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ralpharch
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Derwood
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Counting as one of the beaten ones but not totally accurate- I could have gone into the basement however I wanted for a theater; but she said upfront she would not go down there often. So I have a grayish ceiling; but for all practical purposes its white. Been planning to get some magnetic strips and felt cover some panels black for between wall and pj but hasn't happened yet.
No way in the world can I paint the ceiling on this large spare bedroom black; although dark red walls were acceptable.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Clarence wrote: | | I always enjoy the product photography and lighting. Looks like you were rockin' the 10-22. |
Yup! I bought that wide angle lens to play around at holidays but it's also fantastic for room shots as long you don't mind the distortion from going so wide. It does really weird things to people's faces too if you don't keep them in the middle of the frame.
Completely off topic, but here are some of the first pictures with this Canon 10-22 EF-S lens from last summer |
Great UWA shots! 
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Well, kinda getting back to the topic...
How many with dark/black ceilings have adjustable masking?
Masking is the biggest tweak of all.
My ceiling is low-sheen dark-dark-dark purple, and there is simple, but effective, adjustable masking.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: |
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What were we talking about again? 
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grogthegreat
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Adjustable masking on the ceiling? I'm confused. Others have painted their ceiling and I was going to nail some thin black fabric to it but why would you want to adjust it? Only have the ceiling black when you are watching a movie? That might be neat....
_________________
First projector: Sony 1252q with 3500 hours
Second projector: NEC 9PG+
current projector: Sony G90
100" 3:4 draper screen.
I must keep upgrading till the voices stop!!
"I CAN HAZ CRT PRUJEKTER."
-Curt Palme
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ralpharch wrote: | Counting as one of the beaten ones but not totally accurate- I could have gone into the basement however I wanted for a theater; but she said upfront she would not go down there often. So I have a grayish ceiling; but for all practical purposes its white. Been planning to get some magnetic strips and felt cover some panels black for between wall and pj but hasn't happened yet.
No way in the world can I paint the ceiling on this large spare bedroom black; although dark red walls were acceptable. |
Because ...
While we are not talking about paintint anything beyond the ceiling I see no reason why a spare bedroom that is primarily used for theater cannot have an exceedingly dark color pattern. Is there something in your covenants?
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Well, kinda getting back to the topic...
How many with dark/black ceilings have adjustable masking?
Masking is the biggest tweak of all.
My ceiling is low-sheen dark-dark-dark purple, and there is simple, but effective, adjustable masking. |
I was say masking provides for one of the strongest impacts to perceived blacks, but the notion that horizontal strips or vertical bars of exposed and unused screens is MORE of a problem than a white ceiling in terms of a surface reflecting waste light seems dubious.
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ralpharch
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Derwood
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: |
Because ...
While we are not talking about paintint anything beyond the ceiling I see no reason why a spare bedroom that is primarily used for theater cannot have an exceedingly dark color pattern. Is there something in your covenants? |
Just the covenant between man and wife that keeps us a couple.
Its not so bad that she left me when she said no way in hell is that monstrosity going up on my ceiling several years ago and it mysteriously found itself up there one day when she was gone. But she put her foot down on dark ceiling; the most I could go to is Behr Silver screen or whatever paint it is the DIY's use to get better blacks for LCD projectors ( a fairly light gray)
But I should reflect on my answer and change it to I am working on it. Once I find the magnetic strips or whatever other easy method to install easily removable panels with black felt covering I will have the critical part between pj and screen masked.
I do have adjustable masks for the screen and they did make a huge visual difference in framing whatever I am watching. My biggest complaint on that was that although I purchased a simple wide black window shade, the reverse side is white so I need to add a panel to hide the roller which shows the white vinyl on back side.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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No masking, but dark purple walls/ceiling/carpet and black on both sides of the screen:
(sorry for the distortion)
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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I used to have a white ceiling, well it still is white but I covered the first 6'x12' with black velvet and I will say it made a huge difference in the image, as well as hanging/draping black velvet down the sides of my speakers, which are oak and stand about 5' tall which sit next to the screen sides to kill the reflections.
Mr Green if you'd like to view my setup your welcome to come over, I'm using a zenith 1200x (cine 8 onyx) which has a modded video section and a modded Moome board.
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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anyone want to take screenshots of white vs dark interiors?
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | | anyone want to take screenshots of white vs dark interiors? |
You buy the paint and I'm sure someone is game.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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The only way you could get a sensible result is if someone with white walls took a picture, then draped black cloth on the walls and took another picture -- same projector, same camera, same image. Two different people taking pictures of different setups will produce entirely different results, and you won't be able to tell what changes are from the white walls.
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