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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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And Joris,
concerning your 'glycol - leak': Did you check that this did not come out of the power supply? Maybe a huge cap is leaking there. In your third picture it looks as if the power supply could be the source.
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the discussion Bert 
I haven't opened up the power supply to be honest, will do so this afternoon and see what horrid sight greets me... Sounds fairly plausible that the goo came from the powersupply to be honest, it would have had to have taken a strange road from the tube otherwise - all the more so since it's been hanging ceiling mounted the last few years. And it was really stuck in between the chassi and the power supply unit.
Ah well, will have a look and report back! Nice to hear there are more mods out there though! One question: three 120mm fans in the top - do you mean top-top, or bottom-top? I.e. with the projector standing on it's 'feet', are the fans in the top above the deflection board?
//J
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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Joris,
its bottom-top: ceiling-mounted, fans above the outlets near the heat sinks. Its the same setup Kenny described - with the difference, that I use 3 smaller fans directly above the machine, while he uses one large fan and a plenum.
I took three plasic boxes, cut holes in them for the fans and just placed them on the PJ. This way air is moved through all the outlets on the bottom (well, top if ceiling mounted  ). I guess you could use something like this even when having the xg on the floor. You just would have to elevate it for, lets say, maybe 10 to 15 cm.
Someday I would really like to use a plenum, because of the noise now generated by the extra fans, but I really do not know where I should put it 
Daniel.
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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If you use silent 120mm fans, those should harly be audible. In computer bizniz the Noctua fans are very popular, but there are some less expensive models that also do the trick pretty well.
I actually found out yesterday that we have cement ceilings in the new house, so ceiling mounting suddenly became a serious option again - YAY! : 
I opened up the power supply by the way, and had a look inside:
I don't really see anything amiss there, plus the 'stain' was in the middle at the bottom, there aren't any openings there?
So my best guess is either residual leakage or it's some kind of thermal paste. Or was, cause I removed it.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Looks like a glycol leak to me.
Is the expansion bit of the LC tube less pressurised on one tube than the others (note the flapping settings drastically affect this - that's what the rubber expansion bath bit is for).
And a word of caution on uber-cooling.
I set my XG up with extraction through the chassis, and flipped the side fans around. Damn thing took over an hour to warm up, giving me all sorts of colour balance issues. It likes running at about 45 degrees C.
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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| JorisS wrote: | If you use silent 120mm fans, those should harly be audible. In computer bizniz the Noctua fans are very popular, but there are some less expensive models that also do the trick pretty well.
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Are these fans really moving enough air then? Anyway, i think the most noise is produced by the air flowing around sharp edges etc. inside of the PJ. That would not be affected by the type of fan.
| JorisS wrote: | | I actually found out yesterday that we have cement ceilings in the new house, so ceiling mounting suddenly became a serious option again - YAY! : |
Go for it! Ceiling mountig is much better!
| JorisS wrote: |
I don't really see anything amiss there, plus the 'stain' was in the middle at the bottom, there aren't any openings there?
So my best guess is either residual leakage or it's some kind of thermal paste. Or was, cause I removed it. |
Well, maybe the stain was caused by a leak in a previous set of tubes. You would be totally off the hook in that case 
| Mark_A_W wrote: |
I set my XG up with extraction through the chassis, and flipped the side fans around. Damn thing took over an hour to warm up, giving me all sorts of colour balance issues. It likes running at about 45 degrees C.
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Mark, where did you measure the 45 degrees?
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I have temp probes on the C Drive Heatsink, Green Neckboard Heatsink, and Deflection board Heatsink.
The C drive and Neckboard run between 45 and 55 degrees, depending on ambient. Def board is 10 degs cooler.
I have an alarm set at 55 on a PC temperature controller I fitted in an input slot.
In the hushbox it runs a bit cooler, but warms up quicker. Figure that out
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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: |
In the hushbox it runs a bit cooler, but warms up quicker. Figure that out |
Hmm, you trigger the fans in the hushbox by the PJ temperature? 
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, the extraction fan just runs when the power to the projector is turned on - there is a switch on the box.
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bert Randolph wrote: |
Are these fans really moving enough air then? Anyway, i think the most noise is produced by the air flowing around sharp edges etc. inside of the PJ. That would not be affected by the type of fan.
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Pull out one of the FBA08T12H fans for fun (one is located at the side, fairly easy to access) and hook it up to 12V while suspended in mid-air. I dare say that by far most noise is coming directly from the (those) fans
I'm not quite sure about the history of this pj - I recall that the previous owner mentioned that he put in new tubes, or that he bought it with new tubes, but if that's the case then the hour meter for the chassis has been resetted when those were put in - is that possible? FOr as far as I recall, both chassis and tube hour meter show something like 1100h or 1400h or so.
Anyway, will have a closer look at the tubes and all, but I couldn't see ANY traces of leaking anywhere when I looked the other day. If it leaks and ends up below the power supply, it would be safe to assume that there should be some kind of leaking trace as well, right?
Anyway, all fans are dismounted and I'm currently considering what I'll do - either replace them with similar size but quieter fans, or mod larger fans in place. I can go by CFM specs, Bert, so they'll be moving at least equally much air. But Mark has a point, one does not want to overdo it either I guess 
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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| JorisS wrote: |
Anyway, all fans are dismounted and I'm currently considering what I'll do - either replace them with similar size but quieter fans, or mod larger fans in place. I can go by CFM specs, Bert, so they'll be moving at least equally much air. But Mark has a point, one does not want to overdo it either I guess |
If you get it ceiling mounted I really would go for extraction through the holes in the bottom of the PJ. It just makes a lot of sense, as all the really hot parts are exactly there, the air is moved right through the big heat sinks.
This way you can just slow down the orignal fans until they are really silent (I use a Zalman Fan Mate 2 for this, which allows me to regulate the speed step-less).
Advantages: No new fans necessary and you do not get into trouble with 'fans stopped' warnings.
Daniel
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I might just do that.... how did you connect the extra fans?
I checked more inside the pj and found some spots that appear to be corroded, some white-ish corrosion on some screws and chassis plating - results of glycol leak? Nothing 'fresh' though so I do wonder when the leak occured, if really there was one.
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Bert Randolph
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JorisS wrote: | I might just do that.... how did you connect the extra fans?
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I use a separate power supply (wall wart). Costs only a few euro
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ok here are some pictures of the 'corrosion' I mentioned...
Are these traces of (previous) glycol leaks or what else? As I mentioned, apart from between the power supply and the chassis there are no traces whatsoever of any 'fresh' leaks, and since the power supply and chassi were so stuck together I guess the stuff that was there could've been there for quite some time.
I'm talking a floor perspective here, in terms of 'above' and 'underneath'. The 'corrosion' stuff has a bit of a 'chalk' substance, very easy to rub off, and tastes like chicken  (obviously haven't tasted it hehe)
front fan hoovering over the lenses:
(how the heck would glycol get there?)
fan holder underneath the green tube:
Mount above blue tube:
Green tube top and one of the screws corroded (2nd pic):
blue and green tube:
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JorisS
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| KennyG wrote: |
With regard to the three wires to each fan (red blue, yellow) For every fan that you remove (except the one between the lenses up front) you must ground the yellow wire, or your pj will shutdown on fan failure.
All I did was de-pin all the red and blue wires (remove them) then tie all the yellow wire together and take them to a ground point. I used an empty ground pin on one of the boards.
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I plan to re-wire all the fan stuff today, my order of 7 x Noctua NF-R8 came in the other day, as well as some 60mm fans:
I'll do some modding on those places where the metal frames only supports 10mm high fans.
So I plan to connect the yellow wires to a ground point - would any screw in the chassis work, or should I go for one of these empty ground pins? Any hints of where to find those and what they look like?
Cheers,
Joris
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