CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[mp20748]

[RVonse]

[Bruce 09]

[ecrabb]

You guys are getting all bent out of shape about *where* the projectors are on the list, when in reality, they're actually pretty close. For instance, a Zenith 1200 and G70 are actually very close to an 8500LC Ultra - end everything between. The list isn't just about sharpness... It's about suitability for HT use UNMODDED. IIRC, Dave weighted color filtering pretty heavily - and rightfully so. The Zenith 1200 and G70 are both color filtered out of the box. How's the color accuracy on that 8500LC Ultra out of the box, Bruce? Now, mod the 8500LC Ultra, and it's right there with the G70 and Zenith - maybe even having the edge. The 1292 is an excellent 9" machine, and color filtered to boot, but sounds like a jet engine. Put it in a hushbox, and it moves up the list. Dave dinged it and put it down into the intermediate section because of the noise and because of the streaking.

Personally, I'd take any color-filtered 8" EM/LC machine over any unfiltered 9" machine in a heartbeat. You can see color accuracy at a casual glance - the difference is huge. An extra bit of sharpness? Forget about it. Doesn't even matter on most program material.

RVonse, what does you buying an XG for $30 have to do with anything? That's atypical and you know it. A nice XG LC or G70 is going to bring $1000+ if the seller doesn't firesale it. I know for a fact that several 1209/2's left a local university almost 5 years ago for somewhere around $500 apiece. So what?

The list simply can't take into account every variable, mod, and end-user priority... Hence, Kal's disclaimer.

SC

[Nashou66]

[stefuel]

You guy's crack me up. You spend sooo much time defending your projectors that you miss the most important thing, ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR PROJECTOR??? I am and it won't be coming down for a swap to another brand unless it suffers a major melt-down. Are there better 9" EM LC projectors for HT use? Perhaps but not enough to warrant the expense and time to do it. For years you viewed the sharpness of digitals as one of it's downfalls, a bad thing, claiming that it makes film look to harsh yet now you taunt the sharpness of blends as something good. The folks in the digital forums must think we are clown shoes.

[Bruce 09]

[ecrabb]

I generally agree with most of what you're saying Bruce. I shouldn't have said "bent out of shape"; I didn't mean to imply that you were actually mad. Just that it's even an issue or a point of discussion... Seems like we're pretty quick to pick nits, and that list has always been a bone of contention for so many guys... "That projector should be lower, that one should be higher..." There was so much whining and bitching about it when Kal put it up, Kal told everybody if somebody wanted to re-order it and justify their decisions, they could... and I think Dave took him up on it and did.

I think it's a pretty good list, now - as long as you use it as a general guideline and not as gospel. I think of the list like the Road & Track list that gets assembled every year... There's the Z06 that does the 1/4 mile 1/10 of a second faster than the Porsche, and the Porsche that turns in .02g better skid pad than the Viper, but any one of us would LOVE to have almost any of them.

I also think the cars are a good comparison for projector when you talk about mods. Aftermarket tires, for instance. Clearly a mod. There's factory stock and there isn't. While tires are an easy mod, they can affect the performance of the car profoundly. Could be a weak feature from the factory that really impacts the performance negatively. That's like color filtering to me. Yes, it's to do, but it's still a mod that improves the factory product.

Why is it amusing that there is so much more detail on the Zenith 1200 compared to the 808/Cine 8? Kal OWNS a 1200 - he wrote about because he knows all about it. I'm sure if you wanted to write a comprehensive info page for the 808 (or any other chassis for that matter), Kal would be happy to have it. Why would you be so much happier with a Cine 8 Onyx vs. a Zenith 1200? The 1200 almost IS a Cine 8. For HT duty at 1080p/60, it practically is. If you had corner focus issues, you could just replace the HD-215's with HD-18's, right?

I think the best/worst list is about the best it can be, honestly. It's a general guide - nothing more. It's meant as a starting point. You could start adding in much more detail (8500LC Ultra w/color filtering, 8500LC Ultra w/o color filtering), but I think overall usability of the list would go down. I do think it would be nice if there was a column for color filtering - because I think good primaries are REALLY important for good HT performance. Good color and LC are the two most important things to me, with size/shape of the chassis probably being a distant third. The Marquee chassis would be a non-starter in my HT. Yes, I could do major floor framing re-engineering by cutting and sistering floor joists to build a recess, but if I don't have to with a Sony or Barco chassis - why would I?

Chip is really right - the point SHOULD be for us all to get the best projector we can possibly afford and then ENJOY IT! Watch some damn movies and enjoy the fruits of our efforts. I know there are machines better than my G70, but I don't care. I bought what I felt was the very best projector I could buy for my budget, my room, and my comfort level (Sony).

SC

[Bruce 09]

[stefuel]

Let's expand on the anal-ogy of cars. Both a Corvette and a Camaro will easily do the speed limit. If you never intend on breaking the speed law, why do you need a Corvette? My 4600HD does 1080P with room to spare and dare I say, better color then most of the so claimed higher end projectors. Has anyone ever wondered why I've never "traded up"? I'll tell you why. I don't feel there is enough performance improvement to make it worth my while. And yes, I have seen both stock and modded 9500 Ultras and was not impressed.

And while I'm ranting, a good number of you have been here from the start of Curt's forum having left AVS behind as the main CRT forum. Most here know how long I've had my 4600HD hanging from the ceiling with little or no trouble. So much for AmPro's reliability arguement

[RVonse]

[Spanky Ham]

[Spanky Ham]

Robert,
You could be right, but I think there are some other factors involved. There is first and foremost perception. Second, there is the value of the tubes and to a lesser extent the other parts of the pj. People will obviously pay more based on perception and with tubes being so expensive, good tubes can give a pj value. The 1292 is not sought after any more because of the streaking. It is now just a part mule for modders. Interestingly enough, I haven't heard of any streaking on the Ampro 4200s. Maybe Scott really does know something about designing pjs.

[Nashou66]

Scott really knows his stuff. For both ampro and marquee's. He is always moving forward in the design when there is a call for it from his customers. its great that VDC is still committed to crt. the new Ultras we just got at auction were an order mistake and they needed 9500LC Ultras. new marquees are being sold still, maybe not in mass quantities but they are. the one guy i talk to who's company services over 200 marquees says they may order more this year if the one customer adds a new facility or decides to just replace the old ones( some more out in the market soon maybe!!)...the CRT is still alive!!!!

Athanasios

[bbfarmht]

[Nashou66]

[mp20748]

[mp20748]

[emdawgz1]

So are you saying that what limits the XG and the 8500lc is the size of the tube face and the lumen output???

[mp20748]